Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship

[some guy]

Stockhausen had been composing for that "new" medium for more than a decade when he tackled Hymnen.

Indeed. Fourteen years.

scores notated schematically, leaving precise details to the players.

This reminds me of someone else. I can't quite put my finger on it....

This exploration and careful selection of base materials is no different than, for example, what went into Cage's Music of Changes; in fact, Stockhausen greatly admired this work, with the serial-like construction of and progression through the charts. The work is as precisely notated as you can get, painstakingly assembled from the individual events notated in the charts.

Oh, right. That's who.

[petrarch]

On the surface it may appear that way but it has nothing to do with Cage's simplistic & arbitrary way with music at all. Can't stand Music of Changes .. it's nowhere near Stockhausen's 'deeper' musicality & complexity.

As I said in the other thread, that is an aesthetic judgment--you can't stand it, other people do (including Stockhausen).

[snyprrr]

COUPLES
1. soprano | bass (not modulated)
2. soprano + cat | bass + dog
3. soprano + photocopy machine | bass + typewriter
4. soprano + racing car | bass + racing car driver (hoarse, vocoder-modulated with internal saw-tooth oscillation)
5. soprano + pin-ball machine | bass + pin-ball machine player (vocoder modulated with pin-ball machine)
6. soprano + soccer ball (whizzing) | bass + kicking leg (banging)
7. soprano + owl | bass + rocket
8. soprano + sighing woman | bass + drug syringe (puncturing noise) with swarm of bees
9. soprano + electric pencil sharpener | bass + pencil (sharpening noise)
10. soprano + woman's mouth (slurping) | bass + ice cream cone (licked) with drops & bee
11. soprano + violin | bass + violin bow
12. soprano + bird's nest (dry, pressed) | bass + raven (jackdaw)

Well,... thaaat's interesting

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Time to reconsider?

I haven't liked Stockhausen much in the past, despite giving him a number of serious tries.

However, I'm willing to reconsider. To that end, I ordered the Eötvös recording of Gruppen and Punkte, and it will be waiting for me when I arrive in Chicago in a few days.

Years ago, I had the Abbado recording of Gruppen, but it really didn't stick to me. I've read in a number of places that it's generally considered to be not very good, and fails to bring out the spatial aspect of the piece sufficiently. So, here's hoping Eötvös will come through for me.

[MDL]

Time to reconsider?

I haven't liked Stockhausen much in the past, despite giving him a number of serious tries.

However, I'm willing to reconsider. To that end, I ordered the Eötvös recording of Gruppen and Punkte, and it will be waiting for me when I arrive in Chicago in a few days.

Years ago, I had the Abbado recording of Gruppen, but it really didn't stick to me. I've read in a number of places that it's generally considered to be not very good, and fails to bring out the spatial aspect of the piece sufficiently. So, here's hoping Eötvös will come through for me.

The Eötvös is better than the Abbado, but not as good as the composer-led DG recording. I'd highly recommend hearing Momente which has been posted in its entirety, in two parts, on YouTube. Stockhausen's greatest achievement, IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZdtGa7PosM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6xlF7OmiI8&feature=related

[snyprrr]

I kno right .. i'd like to have a guitar effect system that can house infinite samples that I record myself which I can mix together as a patch and play as not only as notes, melodic lines and chords in real time, but if possible contrapuntally/polyphonically. lol

That reminds me of the 'bmm, bmm' Voice setting on the Casio, haha. It's always fun to play a Barbershop Fugue, haha.

[MDL]

MDL .. his greatest achievement? really?

Absolutely, totally and utterly 100% really! Nothing I've heard by Stockhausen surpasses it in terms of range, variety and inspiration. I'd stick my neck out say it's probably the greatest achievement in post-1945 music. So there!

Having said that, unlike you, I've only heard three of the Licht operas, so this is very much IMHO. I still rate Momente above those three, mind.

[MDL]

It's a highlight in his canon .. and it's incredibly inventive, but I wouldn't say it even approaches his 29hr. magnum opus Licht in terms of range & variety. Licht consolidates, builds-upon and uses up everything he invented prior and then some ..

Until I actually hear the other four Licht operas, I'll have to say that you win this argument on points! 

[petrarch]

VISUAL ELEMENTS

(...)

"The bongo player is seated on a stool - his profile to the audience - at some distance from the saxophone play and watches him. The saxophonist plays towards him, at a slight diagonal to the audience...Saxophone as a solo piece could be played - in the context of a programme with other compositions - at a completely unexpected place in the audience. In that case, the player should only appear through the fading in of a follower spotlight aimed at him. At the end, he disappears when the light is very slowly faded out."

This careful attention to detail stems from a pragmatic spirit (rather than a micromanaging one). When one thinks about the level of thoughtfulness and care for detail that go into a performance, one realizes that performers must make countless decisions. Thus Stockhausen's attention to detail is a sensitivity to a performer's undertaking in presenting a piece to an audience. He understands that even a performer's costume, worn for a particular piece, should be carefully planned in advance and be suitable for the music to be performed. Stockhausen's forethought to note in his scores his choices on the aspects of production, free performers to put their energy into interpreting the music.

Completely arbitrary and unmusical nonsense!

[CRCulver]

On some other forums I was on, news of Stockhausen's death was greeted with posts like "Finally, now we can have performances of his music without the sci-fi costumes and ridiculous gestures." Even some enormous fans of "Sirius" or the LICHT music cringe at the composer's extramusical demands.

[snyprrr]

Completely arbitrary and unmusical nonsense!

If the music's already good, what's the beef? What Composer wouldn't like to gaurantee a little consistency of vision? I certainly would forbid the kinds of fashions in that Winter Music video in the other Thread. No flower prints, or denim!!

Only hot babes can play MY music!!

[MDL]

If the music's already good, what's the beef? What Composer wouldn't like to gaurantee a little consistency of vision? I certainly would forbid the kinds of fashions in that Winter Music video in the other Thread. No flower prints, or denim!!

Only hot babes can play MY music!!

And here to present Maestro snyprrr's Opus 1:

[snyprrr]

And here to present Maestro snyprrr's Opus 1:

 :oI'm being stalked!!

[MDL]

THE EARLY YEARS (1950-1977)

NO-O-O-O-O-O-O!!!! I'm not having that! 

THE EARLY YEARS (1950-55)

Uncharacteristic stuff like Choral and Drei Lieder and a few early stabs at forging a mature language, eg Kreuzspiel.


STOCKHAUSEN'S CREATIVE PEAK (1955-1974)

From Gesang der Jünglinge to Inori.

THE BIT WHERE STOCKHAUSEN GOT BOGGED DOWN IN FORMULAS, THE TIERKEIS MELODIES AND BIZARRE PERSONAL MYTHOLOGY (1974-2004)

[CRCulver]

When half of the new posts around here are just James' regurgitations from Wikipedia etc., it's hard to be enthusiastic about the GMG Classical Music Forum. Has this forum passed its peak? Anyone with suggestions for other forums are welcome to send me a private message.

[DavidW]

Perhaps it has, you can leave now. None of your posts are ever interesting or informative as I recall. And btw, I type everything out (doesn't take long) and it's for me to sort everything out here .. if others find it interesting that's fine, if they don't, that's fine too.

Except that Cato is the thread starter, and nobody really owns a thread including you.  If the posts are only for you, just save them on your hard drive.  The purpose of a forum is to discuss topics with like minded people.  You have an opportunity to discuss Stockhausen with other fans of his music, but you piss it away with your article posts.

Just think on this James: why are you here?  What do you want to get from this forum?  From where I'm standing I see someone that alternates between article posts and petty fighting... I see someone starving for real conversation.

Those are my two cents take it or leave, but please don't insult me simply because you don't like what I say.

[petrarch]

Trans, usw 1973

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/WxKTjAWQH9s" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/WxKTjAWQH9s</a>

[snyprrr]

Trans, usw 1973

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/WxKTjAWQH9s" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/WxKTjAWQH9s</a>

Seriously, now I have to go buy a new bong!















Juuuus kidding ,... however, I WILL wait until 3am to watch this!! That is so cool!!

[snyprrr]

btw James, I for one appreciate all the Posts! Can't say I've watched everything/read everything,... but I would.

[MDL]

btw James, I for one appreciate all the Posts! Can't say I've watched everything/read everything,... but I would.

Well said, that man. James, your contribution to the Stockhausen thread has been epic and I really appreciate all your hard work. Your exploration of the Licht cycle is especially useful to people like me who remain ignorant of most of the operas.