Author Topic: Zinman's Beethoven  (Read 8317 times)

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Offline Lethevich

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Re: Zinman's Beethoven
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2007, 09:40:22 AM »
Did you mean $3.50? Maybe not, that one is coupled with the Appassionata sonata (a perverse juxtaposition if I've ever heard one).

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Renfield

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Re: Zinman's Beethoven
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2007, 09:45:18 AM »

As far as the original question - who would conduct the Pastoral quickly - the answer is:

H v K
e o a
r  n r
b    a
e    j
r    a
t    n

I think you're forgetting Arturo Toscanini... And surely, Karajan's later Pastoral is not that fast?!

Regardless, I think conductors like Celibidache have taught us (or at least me) that speed is relevant in music every bit as much as it's relevant in the rest of the universe. ;)

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Zinman's Beethoven
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2007, 09:52:42 AM »
I think you're forgetting Arturo Toscanini... And surely, Karajan's later Pastoral is not that fast?!

Regardless, I think conductors like Celibidache have taught us (or at least me) that speed is relevant in music every bit as much as it's relevant in the rest of the universe. ;)

I'm not sure that I'd trust Celi to occupy so much of my time :P Klemperer makes a nice case for a slow 6th IMO.
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Offline Brian

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Re: Zinman's Beethoven
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2007, 09:53:14 AM »
I think you're forgetting Arturo Toscanini... And surely, Karajan's later Pastoral is not that fast?!
Sorry, my Karajan is the '63... I'd love to hear his later thoughts though.

Renfield

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Re: Zinman's Beethoven
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2007, 10:02:54 AM »
Klemperer makes a nice case for a slow 6th IMO.

I think Klemperer's Philharmonia recording about marks the limit of how slow a Beethoven 6th can get! :P

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Zinman's Beethoven
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2007, 10:09:07 AM »
I think Klemperer's Philharmonia recording about marks the limit of how slow a Beethoven 6th can get! :P

Indeedie, there must be a small temporal anomoly forming somewhere in the middle, as it often doesn't feel that slow. It's sooo luminously played and grippingly directed :)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2007, 10:11:51 AM by Lethe »
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hornteacher

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Re: Zinman's Beethoven
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2007, 03:13:26 PM »
Since Mackerras' cycle, I've become used to the faster speeds at which Beethoven's symphonies are often played these days.

Yep me too, and (for me) that's a good thing.

hornteacher

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Re: Zinman's Beethoven
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2007, 03:15:04 PM »
Hey, stuff moves fast in the country, too: ever watch a buck at full run or a hawk on the chase or a city-dweller running from a harmless snake?  ;D

Point taken.   :)

Mark

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Re: Zinman's Beethoven
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2007, 03:19:39 PM »
Still, I'd prefer it if he didn't "embroider" the score with his extra changes, based on "solid musicological principles" as they might be...

The embroidery doesn't bother me - it's where he lets the tension slacken here and there that has me wishing he'd just gone for it. The Seventh Symphony is a great example: so-so first movement, unique second, swift and compelling third, then a hum-drum finale. Disappointing, but not wholly unattractive.

Harry

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Re: Zinman's Beethoven
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2007, 09:27:10 PM »
The embroidery doesn't bother me - it's where he lets the tension slacken here and there that has me wishing he'd just gone for it. The Seventh Symphony is a great example: so-so first movement, unique second, swift and compelling third, then a hum-drum finale. Disappointing, but not wholly unattractive.

Funny enough the seventh always seems to be a problem point, even for Gardiner, I remember being annoyed about the first movement too, and expected sort of that Zinman would step on the same landmine, and he obviously did, the sod. :)