Zinman's Beethoven

Started by Mark, September 19, 2007, 03:42:32 PM

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Lethevich

Quote from: brianrein on September 20, 2007, 10:38:28 AM
Did you mean $3.50? Maybe not, that one is coupled with the Appassionata sonata (a perverse juxtaposition if I've ever heard one).

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Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Renfield

Quote from: brianrein on September 20, 2007, 10:38:28 AM

As far as the original question - who would conduct the Pastoral quickly - the answer is:

H v K
e o a
r  n r
b    a
e    j
r    a
t    n

I think you're forgetting Arturo Toscanini... And surely, Karajan's later Pastoral is not that fast?!

Regardless, I think conductors like Celibidache have taught us (or at least me) that speed is relevant in music every bit as much as it's relevant in the rest of the universe. ;)

Lethevich

Quote from: Renfield on September 20, 2007, 10:45:18 AM
I think you're forgetting Arturo Toscanini... And surely, Karajan's later Pastoral is not that fast?!

Regardless, I think conductors like Celibidache have taught us (or at least me) that speed is relevant in music every bit as much as it's relevant in the rest of the universe. ;)

I'm not sure that I'd trust Celi to occupy so much of my time :P Klemperer makes a nice case for a slow 6th IMO.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Brian

Quote from: Renfield on September 20, 2007, 10:45:18 AM
I think you're forgetting Arturo Toscanini... And surely, Karajan's later Pastoral is not that fast?!
Sorry, my Karajan is the '63... I'd love to hear his later thoughts though.

Renfield

Quote from: Lethe on September 20, 2007, 10:52:42 AM
Klemperer makes a nice case for a slow 6th IMO.

I think Klemperer's Philharmonia recording about marks the limit of how slow a Beethoven 6th can get! :P

Lethevich

#25
Quote from: Renfield on September 20, 2007, 11:02:54 AM
I think Klemperer's Philharmonia recording about marks the limit of how slow a Beethoven 6th can get! :P

Indeedie, there must be a small temporal anomoly forming somewhere in the middle, as it often doesn't feel that slow. It's sooo luminously played and grippingly directed :)
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

hornteacher

Quote from: Mark on September 20, 2007, 12:26:37 AM
Since Mackerras' cycle, I've become used to the faster speeds at which Beethoven's symphonies are often played these days.

Yep me too, and (for me) that's a good thing.

hornteacher

Quote from: Grazioso on September 20, 2007, 04:32:42 AM
Hey, stuff moves fast in the country, too: ever watch a buck at full run or a hawk on the chase or a city-dweller running from a harmless snake?  ;D

Point taken.   :)

Mark

Quote from: Renfield on September 20, 2007, 09:50:34 AM
Still, I'd prefer it if he didn't "embroider" the score with his extra changes, based on "solid musicological principles" as they might be...

The embroidery doesn't bother me - it's where he lets the tension slacken here and there that has me wishing he'd just gone for it. The Seventh Symphony is a great example: so-so first movement, unique second, swift and compelling third, then a hum-drum finale. Disappointing, but not wholly unattractive.

Harry

Quote from: Mark on September 20, 2007, 04:19:39 PM
The embroidery doesn't bother me - it's where he lets the tension slacken here and there that has me wishing he'd just gone for it. The Seventh Symphony is a great example: so-so first movement, unique second, swift and compelling third, then a hum-drum finale. Disappointing, but not wholly unattractive.

Funny enough the seventh always seems to be a problem point, even for Gardiner, I remember being annoyed about the first movement too, and expected sort of that Zinman would step on the same landmine, and he obviously did, the sod. :)