Wagner One Ring to rule them all...

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I think I see a thread out of the labyrinth here.  I think EMI has been licensing older remasterings when a newer remastering exists.  Evidence:  You can get the 1986 EMI remastering of the Furtwangler Tristan as a release from Brilliant (see the Brilliant Opera Collection)--but the 1990s remastering remains in EMIs catalogue.  A similar situation exists with the Callas Tosca available from Brilliant, and possibly/probably others. (I know about those two because I have the Brilliant versions). The most recent EMI release of the RAI ring uses the 1991 remastering; on this pattern we can envisage EMI licensing the 1972 masters while keeping the 1991 version for its own catalogue.

Could be, I suppose. Or it could be companies like Brilliant simply forgo anything in the way of SOTA remastering and make do with the masters EMI hands them, with an eye towards keeping their releases at such a low price point.

In contrast to a label like Testament who licenses from EMI but isn't satisfied until they painstakingly remaster everything they issue. Hence the higher price tag compared to Brilliant.

Couldn't say for certain...

Anyway, you may well be right, JS.

[Renfield]

I'd also expect Brilliant to go for the  maximum-bang-for-their-buck approach; but that's precisely why it makes sense that they'd deliberate license last year's remasterings. For all their 'budgetness', Brilliant Classics issues aren't sloppy.

Jeffrey's reasoning is quite convincing, IMO.

[Brahmsian]

I think Sarge should start a Ring Deathmatch, on an Act-by-Act basis, with all his 20 different Ring cycles!  That should keep him busy!! 

[madaboutmahler]

Am desperate to own my first Ring now... am going to ask my parents to buy it for me as a birthday present, I figured that my monthly pocket money of around £15 is not quite enough...

But, which one?!!!

Karajan, Solti or Barenboim?
[asin]B000009CMV[/asin]
[asin]B0000042H4[/asin]
[asin]B004FLKV5O[/asin]

Ilaria and John have both told me Karajan, but then I see other reviews saying that Solti's Ring is the greatest achievement in recording history... so confusing!!!! Which one to get?! 

[Opus106]

Am desperate to own my first Ring now... am going to ask my parents to buy it for me as a birthday present, I figured that my monthly pocket money of around £15 is not quite enough...

14.99 at Amazon. (Girl not included.)

However, with two-months' worth of pocket money, you could get Böhm's Ring -- which comes highly recommended by marvin brown, the resident Wagnerian -- and save a few Pounds.

[Mirror Image]

Am desperate to own my first Ring now... am going to ask my parents to buy it for me as a birthday present, I figured that my monthly pocket money of around £15 is not quite enough...

But, which one?!!!

Karajan, Solti or Barenboim?
[asin]B000009CMV[/asin]

Ilaria and John have both told me Karajan, but then I see other reviews saying that Solti's Ring is the greatest achievement in recording history... so confusing!!!! Which one to get?! 

Karajan's Ring is the best Ring I've heard. The others I own are Solti, Levine, and Barenboim. I don't like the Barenboim because of all the stage noise and it's very distracting. Don't let anybody else tell you the stage noises weren't obtrusive, because they most certainly were! So I quickly remedied Barenboim's Ring with Karajan's and the difference was unbelievable. I can't say I'm that impressed with the Solti now after hearing the whole cycle. I think Karajan's approach worked much better than Solti who I thought was completely over-the-top and not in an enjoyable way.

But buying a Ring cycle comes down to personal subjectivity as with anything. Sarge actually recommended me the Karajan last year and I'm glad I took the plunge, because it was an incredible listening experience. Everything just felt right in his performances. When I take a vacation in the summer, I'm planning on making my way through Karajan's again.

[kishnevi]

However, with two-months' worth of pocket money, you could get Böhm's Ring -- which comes highly recommended by marvin brown, the resident Wagnerian -- and save a few Pounds.

Second the Bohm.  Or, for about three months worth of pocket money, the Furtwangler/RAI ring.
Two bonuses to these are that you will eventually want to get them, anyway, unlike the Karajan (sorry, John), Solti, or Barenboim, and you will then be able to ask your folks to get you something else for your birthday--the Bernstein Mahler DVD cycle, for instance  (or the Levine DVD set of the Ring, which I would prefer to the CD Levine set simply because of the added visual element).

[mc ukrneal]

14.99 at Amazon. (Girl not included.)

However, with two-months' worth of pocket money, you could get Böhm's Ring -- which comes highly recommended by marvin brown, the resident Wagnerian -- and save a few Pounds.

I can third the Bohm, but as that can be gotten on sale from time to time at $30-40 or so, that is something he can pick up himself. The Karajan and Solti are both great Rings. The Solti was the first to reach the market and that is one of the reasons it is seen as 'the classic'. Both have excellent sets of singers (both have their weaknesses too, but overall solid) and excellent orchestral color and playing. I think you will be happy with either one.

The thing about opera is that the voices are a very personal decision.  There are so many variables. And in this sense, it will be impossible to say which ones you will like better. My suggestion would be to listen to some excerpts of both at youtube and see if there is one you generally prefer. If not, either will bring you much future enjoyment. It is like choosing between 2 of your favorite Mahler symphony versions. They will both be great, and each will bring something different to the music.

EDIT: The best singing I've ever heard on a Ring was the Kraus, but that is better as a supplement as the sound is not as good. But the singing is glorious!

[jlaurson]

Am desperate to own my first Ring now... am going to ask my parents to buy it for me as a birthday present, I figured that my monthly pocket money of around £15 is not quite enough...

But, which one?!!!


Ilaria and John have both told me Karajan, but then I see other reviews saying that Solti's Ring is the greatest achievement in recording history... so confusing!!!! Which one to get?! 

All are special. My answer would be: Boehm... but then it can't be denied that Karajan has a lithe, italianate way with Wagner that, sooner or later, you will want to hear.
The Solti is impressive, to this day. Probably slightly overrated simply because it was such a milestone at its time, though. And, to make it more confusing: I'm a big fan of Barenboim's Wagner... T&I, Th., and Parsifal especially, but also his semi-studio Ring. The good news: you can't go wrong with any. Further: The Barenboim is the only budget Ring that has a full libretto (with examples from the score). The other two, do too, but are not available for the same price, I suppose. Boehm, in its latest re-re-re-release is inexpensive now, but also cheap. (No libretto or meaningful notes.) Spur of the moment suggestion: Karajan! Ah, no, maybe Barenb...

[Sergeant Rock]

Am desperate to own my first Ring now...Which one to get?! 

I don't know what to tell you, Mad. Solti is the conventional choice. Most people are very happy with it. I'm sure you would be too. I've recommended it on occasion myself as a first Ring...even though I'm not a fan of Solti's Wagner. I own 12 Rings (including the EMI Potted Ring) and Solti is near the bottom in my estimation:

KARAJAN   BERLIN PHIL
BÖHM   BAYREUTH
BARENBOIM   BAYREUTH 91
MORALT   VIENNA SYMPHONY
KRAUSS   BAYREUTH 53
LEVINE   MET
FURTWÄNGLER     RAI ROME
SOLTI   VIENNA PHIL
THIELEMANN   BAYREUTH
KNAPPERTSBUSCH   BAYREUTH 56
HAITINK   SOBR

Thielemann would rank much higher if his cast were better. Furtwängler would be in the top 3 if his sound and, to a lesser extent, his orchestra were better. I think Solti is too brutal. To me it's a superficial interpretation; very impressive sounding but basically that's it: sound and fury. (That's a ridiculous hyperbolic statement but it is the way I hear it  ) Karajan finds the poetry in the score but the performance doesn't lack power when needed. I prefer DG's sound too: the balance between orchestra and voice is just right. Karajan's cast didn't have the star power of Solti's. He was looking for younger, fresher voices, and I think it worked well in most cases. The inconsistency in cast from opera to opera doesn't bother me (it bothers some).

Have you read the Ring thread? Lots of info, lots of debate. It should help you decide.

Sarge

[madaboutmahler]

Thank you all for your feedback, I am very grateful! Choosing a first Ring is such a hard task....

It seems that you have narrowed it down to either Karajan or Bohm for me. I think I'll ask for the Karajan set for my birthday. Then after that buy the Bohm myself. I have listened to some of the (extremely short) excerpts the Amazon provides for both and have to say that both sound really brilliant.

After what I have heard so far (which really is only the Magic Fire music from Walkure, finales to the 1st and 3rd acts of Siegfried and the Immolation Scene and finale from Gotterdammerung) I can really imagine the Ring becoming an absolute favourite work of mine, alongside the Mahler symphonies 6, 7, and 9!

So excited about starting this amazing journey! Have to wait till mid-March though...
Thank you again for all your help!

[Lisztianwagner]

After what I have heard so far (which really is only the Magic Fire music from Walkure, finales to the 1st and 3rd acts of Siegfried and the Immolation Scene and finale from Gotterdammerung) I can really imagine the Ring becoming an absolute favourite work of mine, alongside the Mahler symphonies 6, 7, and 9!

So glad to hear this!

Apart from Tristan und Isolde, no other work could be as beautiful, powerful, passionate and full of harmony as Wagner's Ring, which is an absolute masterpiece!
And about the recordings, I think the Karajan is definitely the best one ever made; the great intensity of Karajan's interpretation really catchs the wagnerian idea of "infinite melody".
Solti's cycle is certainly impressive and gorgeous (great cast and an amazing VPO), but Karajan's one is unbeatable for me.
I don't agree with John about the stage noises in Barenboim's recording, they aren't as annoying as he describes, on the contrary I think they might help to visualize what happens on your mind; moreover the performance is superb.

[madaboutmahler]

So glad to hear this!

Apart from Tristan und Isolde and Mahler 6,7,8 and 9, no other work could be as beautiful, powerful, passionate and full of harmony as Wagner's Ring, which is an absolute masterpiece!
And about the recordings, I think the Karajan is definitely the best one ever made; the great intensity of Karajan's interpretation really catchs the wagnerian idea of "infinite melody".
Solti's cycle is certainly impressive and gorgeous (great cast and an amazing VPO), but Karajan's one is unbeatable for me.
I don't agree with John about the stage noises in Barenboim's recording, they aren't as annoying as he describes, on the contrary I think they might help to visualize what happens on your mind; moreover the performance is superb.

Thank you for the feedback, Ilaria.
I have probably already asked, but which are the Ring Cycles you own? Do you know the Bohm? Based on the feedback above, this is probably the second cycle I will get after the Karajan.

[Lisztianwagner]

Thank you for the feedback, Ilaria.
I have probably already asked, but which are the Ring Cycles you own? Do you know the Bohm? Based on the feedback above, this is probably the second cycle I will get after the Karajan.

I saw your correction; it doesn't annoy me just because I absolutely love those Mahler's symphonies too!

Indeed you have, but no problem. I've got three Ring Cycles: Karajan, Solti and Barenboim; I'm afraid I don't own the complete Bohm, only his recording of Das Rheingold, which is excellent; if ever you bought it, it would be a great choice though.
Anyway, whichever recording of the Ring Cycle you will get, I'm very happy you will start this wonderful journey into Wagner's music!

[madaboutmahler]

I saw your correction; it doesn't annoy me just because I absolutely love those Mahler's symphonies too!

Indeed you have, but no problem. I've got three Ring Cycles: Karajan, Solti and Barenboim; I'm afraid I don't own the complete Bohm, only his recording of Das Rheingold, which is excellent; if ever you bought it, it would be a great choice though.
Anyway, whichever recording of the Ring Cycle you will get, I'm very happy you will start this wonderful journey into Wagner's music!

haha

I'm very forgetful sometimes, sorry So, do you intend to buy any more complete Ring Cycles soon, and if so, which ones? Thank you! I am very excited about starting my journey into Wagner's music!

[Lisztianwagner]

haha

I'm very forgetful sometimes, sorry So, do you intend to buy any more complete Ring Cycles soon, and if so, which ones? Thank you! I am very excited about starting my journey into Wagner's music!

Don't mind

Well, if I should buy another Ring Cycle, I think I would get the rest of the Bohm; his Das Rheingold is passionate and thrilling, so must be his complete Ring.  Apart from this one, both the Furtwangler and the Knappertsbusch are quite remarkable and well-played, but they are old recordings and the sound quality is not perfect. They are worth buying as historical versions of Wagner's Ring though.

[marvinbrown]

Am desperate to own my first Ring now... am going to ask my parents to buy it for me as a birthday present, I figured that my monthly pocket money of around £15 is not quite enough...

But, which one?!!!

Karajan, Solti or Barenboim?
[asin]B000009CMV[/asin]
[asin]B0000042H4[/asin]
[asin]B004FLKV5O[/asin]

Ilaria and John have both told me Karajan, but then I see other reviews saying that Solti's Ring is the greatest
achievement in recording history... so confusing!!!! Which one to get?! 

  Hi Mad. Of the 3 Rings you have posted I would say get the Solti and don't look back. Reason: it has a far superior cast relative to the Karajan and Barenboim rings. The Solti ring is a landmark recording, filled with so much adrenaline and power. It blew me away the first time I heard it!

  The other Rings I love are the Bohm and the Krauss Ring.

  Karajan is too docile and Barenboim is well too slight ( for lack of a better word).
  marvin

 

[Sadko]

  Hi Mad. Of the 3 Rings you have posted I would say get the Solti and don't look back. Reason: it has a far superior cast relative to the Karajan and Barenboim rings. The Solti ring is a landmark recording, filled with so much adrenaline and power. It blew me away the first time I heard it!

  The other Rings I love are the Bohm and the Krauss Ring.

  Karajan is too docile and Barenboim is well too slight ( for lack of a better word).
  marvin

Also on my list Solti would be #1 and Böhm #2.

[marvinbrown]

Also on my list Solti would be #1 and Böhm #2.

  Excellent choices!  I am sorry but I can't stand Karajan's Die Walkure. It is seriously lacking in vocal oomph! A major flaw in my opinion.  There I said it, other Wagnerians can crucify me for saying this but I am sticking to my guns.

Madaboutmahler please sample the Solti Ring before you make your choice. I do not know but choosing either the Karajan or the Barenboim Ring over Solti seems like a big mistake to me. Solti's got Hotter, Windgassen and  Nillson in the principal roles for God's sake.

  Remind me again who Karajan has?  and who sings Brunhillde in the Barenboim ring again?? Like I said, slight (hardly significant).

  marvin

[jlaurson]

Madaboutmahler please sample the Solti Ring before you make your choice. I do not know but choosing either the Karajan or the Barenboim Ring over Solti seems like a big mistake to me. Solti's got Hotter, Windgassen and  Nillson in the principal roles for God's sake.

  Remind me again who Karajan has?  and who sings Brunhillde in the Barenboim ring again?? Like I said, slight (hardly significant).

Oh, I'd say "mistake" is rather going too far. Of course Hotter, Windgassen, and Nilsson are the standard-bearers.

But its not like Jon Vickers (sgm), Gundula Janowitz (sgl), Young Martti Talvela (fslt, hndg), plus a little part for Christa Ludwig et al. are small fry.
And for the major roles, using the more-or-less-just-discovered Helga Dernesch (Bh) was a very deliberate move that makes the special quality of the Karajan Ring.
It may make it into a direction that you don't like, granted, but it's not a 'lesser' choice; it's a deliberately different choice: Young woman vs. steeled Wagner veteran. (Not that Nilsson -- RIP: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/01/birgit-nilsson-on-disc.html -- isn't the bee's knees. I owe her Isolde and her Salome some of my greatest opera-on-record moments!) There's a naivete left in Dernesch's voice that I don't get from Nilsson.
Régine Crespin is a different singer than Dernesch, yes, and in a sense it seems that Bruenhilde has transformed from an intelligent, more deliberate woman, into a (at first) more sanguine character. (Which is fine by me.)
And love as I love Hans Hotter, Karajan's Ring is perhaps the starriest hour there was for Thomas Stewart! He out-sings Fischer-Dieskau (Wotan in HvK's Rheingold), to my ears.

And instead of being made over 8 years, with a notable SQ drop in Rheingold, Karajan's was made over 4... which means that some of the voices in Solti changed considerably, even where he does use the same cast. Still, neither cycle has the long line, the compelling continuity that studio-live recordings like esp. Boehm & also Barenboim and Thielemann have. The latter, as Sarge said, is sunk by a mediocre cast. Just like you don't want to listen to Boulez without also seeing it. (Although that would be my second Ring: First Karajan on CD, then Boulez on DVD/BluRay... then Boehm. And by then you will more than know on your own which (if any) way you will further explore that endlessly fascinating subject.