Author Topic: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...  (Read 172598 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Biffo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2701
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #920 on: December 03, 2020, 08:16:06 AM »
Here’s a question for everyone: I’m in the midst of ripping much of classical collection to my computer (and backing it up as well) and I want to rip one set of the Ring, but which one? Here are the ones I own: Böhm, Karajan, Solti, Barenboim and Janowski (on Sony).

I have all four of these and for me it would be between Solti and Karajan. I already have the Karajan as a lossless download (and on CD) but if that wasn't the case I would still go for Karajan.

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 54047
  • Richard Strauss (1864 - 1949)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Frohe Streiche und Windmühlen
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #921 on: December 03, 2020, 08:19:41 AM »
I have all four of these and for me it would be between Solti and Karajan. I already have the Karajan as a lossless download (and on CD) but if that wasn't the case I would still go for Karajan.

Thanks. Yes, I’m definitely leaning towards Karajan as well. His was the first Ring that made Wagner resonate with me on a deeper level. Solti never did this for me.
"I believe that Strauss will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.” - Arnold Schoenberg on Richard Strauss

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 54047
  • Richard Strauss (1864 - 1949)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Frohe Streiche und Windmühlen
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #922 on: December 09, 2020, 05:17:21 PM »
I ended up buying the Boulez cycle for a decent price off eBay. Any thoughts on his set?



If anything, I’ll be able to hear Boulez’s laser-sharp conducting and how some of the textures and so forth are brought to the foreground that I have missed in other recordings.

So now I have quite a few Ring cycles: Karajan, Solti, Janowski (RCA), Böhm and Boulez.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 06:01:44 PM by Mirror Image »
"I believe that Strauss will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.” - Arnold Schoenberg on Richard Strauss

Offline T. D.

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1243
  • Location: Rural upstate NY
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #923 on: December 10, 2020, 02:35:20 PM »
I owned a VHS of the Boulez-Chéreau Ring and watched it many times until my VHS player died, at which time I donated all of my old VHS to the local library.
Never ventured down the rabbit hole of searching for the best recorded Ring. Owned Solti and Levine (Jimmy's become a non-person and rightly so - prefer not to go there  :'( - ; say what you want about his Ring cast but he was a helluva conductor), sampled some others, decided to stick with Solti and not venture further. I did add the Goodall Twilight of the Gods to have something very different. In the unlikely event I buy another Ring, it'll be one of the "classic" '50s vintage Bayreuth cycles (Krauss, Keilberth prominent candidates). Perhaps Goodall's Rhinegold at some point (D R and G are my favorites of the cycle).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 02:42:46 PM by T. D. »

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 54047
  • Richard Strauss (1864 - 1949)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Frohe Streiche und Windmühlen
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #924 on: December 13, 2020, 08:52:07 AM »
I owned a VHS of the Boulez-Chéreau Ring and watched it many times until my VHS player died, at which time I donated all of my old VHS to the local library.
Never ventured down the rabbit hole of searching for the best recorded Ring. Owned Solti and Levine (Jimmy's become a non-person and rightly so - prefer not to go there  :'( - ; say what you want about his Ring cast but he was a helluva conductor), sampled some others, decided to stick with Solti and not venture further. I did add the Goodall Twilight of the Gods to have something very different. In the unlikely event I buy another Ring, it'll be one of the "classic" '50s vintage Bayreuth cycles (Krauss, Keilberth prominent candidates). Perhaps Goodall's Rhinegold at some point (D R and G are my favorites of the cycle).

Thanks for the feedback. I never cared about watching opera of any kind and I know this is important to the whole experience of opera, but I’ve always preferred listening without the visual aspect of it. I guess I’m weird like that. Also, I don’t really need to know what is being sung, but I do like reading of a synopsis of an opera before I start listening. I just like the whole aural experience and hearing how the music progresses. Anyway, Levine is a great conductor regardless of what he did. I’ll still listen to his recordings as there have been terrible things that a lot of musicians have done through the years, but this has never hindered my own enjoyment of their performances. Karajan is my Wagnerian of choice, but I would like to hear how Boulez fares in this music as I know he does have an attachment to the Austro-Germanic repertoire or at least that line of composers from Wagner, Mahler, the Second Viennese School, etc.
"I believe that Strauss will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.” - Arnold Schoenberg on Richard Strauss

Offline T. D.

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1243
  • Location: Rural upstate NY
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #925 on: December 13, 2020, 09:06:48 AM »
As I've aged, I listen to opera recordings less because I miss the visual aspect! It's difficult to comment on the Boulez-Chéreau Ring because my memories are so linked to the visuals and the VHS sonics were not ultra-hi fi. I found nothing to criticize concerning the music, but some purists might not love the vocal cast.

Offline Biffo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2701
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #926 on: December 13, 2020, 09:13:42 AM »
Thanks for the feedback. I never cared about watching opera of any kind and I know this is important to the whole experience of opera, but I’ve always preferred listening without the visual aspect of it. I guess I’m weird like that. Also, I don’t really need to know what is being sung, but I do like reading of a synopsis of an opera before I start listening. I just like the whole aural experience and hearing how the music progresses. Anyway, Levine is a great conductor regardless of what he did. I’ll still listen to his recordings as there have been terrible things that a lot of musicians have done through the years, but this has never hindered my own enjoyment of their performances. Karajan is my Wagnerian of choice, but I would like to hear how Boulez fares in this music as I know he does have an attachment to the Austro-Germanic repertoire or at least that line of composers from Wagner, Mahler, the Second Viennese School, etc.

You will have to let us know how you get on with Boulez and the Ring cycle. I have it on DVD and have watched/listened to it several times. Boulez favours brisk tempi which is not necessarily a bad thing but occasionally some of the great moments don't make their full effect.

Kempe is my favourite Wagnerian and it is a great pity that none of his complete cycles are in stereo. The best of them is from Bayreuth 1961 on Orfeo - the remastered mono sound is excellent. Personally, I prefer it to the much-hyped stereo of the Keilberth Bayreuth Ring.

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 54047
  • Richard Strauss (1864 - 1949)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Frohe Streiche und Windmühlen
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #927 on: December 13, 2020, 12:20:07 PM »
As I've aged, I listen to opera recordings less because I miss the visual aspect! It's difficult to comment on the Boulez-Chéreau Ring because my memories are so linked to the visuals and the VHS sonics were not ultra-hi fi. I found nothing to criticize concerning the music, but some purists might not love the vocal cast.

Like opera, I'm the same with ballet --- I don’t care nor have ever cared about choreography. I don’t care how its danced, I care about how the music is performed.
"I believe that Strauss will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.” - Arnold Schoenberg on Richard Strauss

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 54047
  • Richard Strauss (1864 - 1949)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Frohe Streiche und Windmühlen
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #928 on: December 13, 2020, 12:22:56 PM »
You will have to let us know how you get on with Boulez and the Ring cycle. I have it on DVD and have watched/listened to it several times. Boulez favours brisk tempi which is not necessarily a bad thing but occasionally some of the great moments don't make their full effect.

Kempe is my favourite Wagnerian and it is a great pity that none of his complete cycles are in stereo. The best of them is from Bayreuth 1961 on Orfeo - the remastered mono sound is excellent. Personally, I prefer it to the much-hyped stereo of the Keilberth Bayreuth Ring.

It’ll probably be quite some time before I get the Boulez’s Ring truth be told as I have far too many irons in the fire right now. I kind of had a feeling that Boulez took things a bit quicker, but that’s alright because I do like hearing different kinds of interpretations. I listened to about 30 minutes or so of his Das Rheingold before I bought the complete set and I was rather enthralled with what I heard. The music had a forward momentum that I liked.
"I believe that Strauss will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.” - Arnold Schoenberg on Richard Strauss

Offline Sergeant Rock

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 22572
  • Location: Wine Country Germany
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #929 on: December 13, 2020, 01:31:45 PM »
Here’s a question for everyone: I’m in the midst of ripping much of classical collection to my computer (and backing it up as well) and I want to rip one set of the Ring, but which one? Here are the ones I own: Böhm, Karajan, Solti, Barenboim and Janowski (on Sony).

Karajan Das Rheingold
Karajan Act I Walküre
Barenboim Act II Walküre
Böhm Act III Walküre
Solti Siegfried
Levine Götterdämmerung (Oops, you don't have Levine so Karajan would be my second choice)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 54047
  • Richard Strauss (1864 - 1949)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Frohe Streiche und Windmühlen
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #930 on: December 13, 2020, 01:48:53 PM »
Karajan Das Rheingold
Karajan Act I Walküre
Barenboim Act II Walküre
Böhm Act III Walküre
Solti Siegfried
Levine Götterdämmerung (Oops, you don't have Levine so Karajan would be my second choice)

Sarge

Cool. Thanks, Sarge. But I’ve only got Karajan’s Ring ripped to my computer right now and I probably won’t be ripping any more Ring cycles. It looks like you lean heavily towards Karajan anyway. ;) What do you think about Solti’s cycle? I’ve heard he’s more of a Straussian. Would you agree with this?
"I believe that Strauss will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.” - Arnold Schoenberg on Richard Strauss

Offline Sergeant Rock

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 22572
  • Location: Wine Country Germany
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #931 on: December 13, 2020, 02:05:39 PM »
Cool. Thanks, Sarge. But I’ve only got Karajan’s Ring ripped to my computer right now and I probably won’t be ripping any more Ring cycles. It looks like you lean heavily towards Karajan anyway. ;) What do you think about Solti’s cycle? I’ve heard he’s more of a Straussian. Would you agree with this?

I do enjoy more of his Strauss operas. I own 13 Rings and Solti's is in the bottom half of the pile. But do I love his Siegfried (especially for Stolze's Mime and the confrontation with Fafner) and Tannhäuser.


Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 54047
  • Richard Strauss (1864 - 1949)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Frohe Streiche und Windmühlen
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #932 on: December 13, 2020, 02:17:52 PM »
I do enjoy more of his Strauss operas. I own 13 Rings and Solti's is in the bottom half of the pile. But do I love his Siegfried (especially for Stolze's Mime and the confrontation with Fafner) and Tannhäuser.


Sarge

Interesting. Good thing I didn’t rip the Solti yet. ;)
"I believe that Strauss will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.” - Arnold Schoenberg on Richard Strauss

Offline Fritz Kobus

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Location: Detroit MI USA
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #933 on: April 18, 2021, 09:54:55 AM »
I must have a dozen Rings and like them all, but this is my favorite because I am stuck on Behrens for Brunnhilde.
Behrens also appears on the fine Sawallisch Ring but the sound on this Levine set is better IMO.

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 54047
  • Richard Strauss (1864 - 1949)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Frohe Streiche und Windmühlen
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #934 on: April 18, 2021, 05:38:03 PM »
I must have a dozen Rings and like them all, but this is my favorite because I am stuck on Behrens for Brunnhilde.
Behrens also appears on the fine Sawallisch Ring but the sound on this Levine set is better IMO.


An okay cycle, but doesn’t hold a candle to HvK and the Berliners despite there being some weaker moments vocally throughout.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 06:57:12 PM by Mirror Image »
"I believe that Strauss will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.” - Arnold Schoenberg on Richard Strauss

Offline Fritz Kobus

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Location: Detroit MI USA
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #935 on: April 19, 2021, 07:38:23 AM »
An okay cycle, but doesn’t hold a candle to HvK and the Berliners despite there being some weaker moments vocally throughout.

As I said, I am tied to Behrens for Brunnhilde.  But I do appreciate other Rings and have all the following (by conductor):

Simone Young
Sawallisch 1989
Sawallisch 1968 Roma Ring (a good one, but I am missing one of the operas)
Krauss
Furtwangler
Levine 1988
Barenboim
Bohm
Solti
Zagrosek (don't ask why, becuse it was there, it was cheap, and it is fun to hit the BUY button)
Janowski
Neuhold (came in a big set)
Swarowsky 1968 (just because)
Goodall (I like this one a lot)

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 54047
  • Richard Strauss (1864 - 1949)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Frohe Streiche und Windmühlen
Re: Wagner One Ring to rule them all...
« Reply #936 on: April 19, 2021, 08:14:50 AM »
As I said, I am tied to Behrens for Brunnhilde.  But I do appreciate other Rings and have all the following (by conductor):

Simone Young
Sawallisch 1989
Sawallisch 1968 Roma Ring (a good one, but I am missing one of the operas)
Krauss
Furtwangler
Levine 1988
Barenboim
Bohm
Solti
Zagrosek (don't ask why, becuse it was there, it was cheap, and it is fun to hit the BUY button)
Janowski
Neuhold (came in a big set)
Swarowsky 1968 (just because)
Goodall (I like this one a lot)

And no Karajan. :-\ We have different tastes in Wagner it seems, which is the way it should be.
"I believe that Strauss will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.” - Arnold Schoenberg on Richard Strauss