Wagner One Ring to rule them all...

Started by canninator, September 24, 2007, 03:37:41 AM

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Elgarian

Quote from: Scarpia on August 06, 2010, 12:23:31 PM
I have to admit that the special effects in the film seem more appropriate to a Ray Harryhausen monster movie than to Wagner's epic Ring.    But with a little suspension of disbelief I found it as compelling a telling of the Rheingold story as I have seen, and musically I think it may be my absolute favorite.
As a musical experience, the Solti had me spellbound by comparison - but the playing field isn't level, as my TV is hopelessly poor by comparison with my hifi system (one of the reasons why I don't have a large opera DVD collection).

I agree though that it does have its strengths, and I wasn't bored by it. Just squirming now and then!

knight66

Alan, I have altered the title and hope that continues to ensure the thread is found. The search engine does not like Berlioz either.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Scarpia

Quote from: Elgarian on August 06, 2010, 12:37:08 PM
as my TV is hopelessly poor by comparison with my hifi system.

Virtually all music/opera DVDs have an uncompressed stereo track that is technically superior to CD sound, so it is well worth the effort to connect the DVD player to the stereo system for playback of musical programs.

Elgarian

Quote from: knight on August 06, 2010, 01:37:42 PM
Alan, I have altered the title and hope that continues to ensure the thread is found. The search engine does not like Berlioz either.
Thanks Mike.

Elgarian

#284
Quote from: Scarpia on August 06, 2010, 01:40:37 PM
Virtually all music/opera DVDs have an uncompressed stereo track that is technically superior to CD sound, so it is well worth the effort to connect the DVD player to the stereo system for playback of musical programs.
Yes, I sometimes contemplate attempting something along those lines, but it's a small room, and the room logistics don't support the combination: the best place for the hifi speakers (by far the most important consideration) is on either side of the fireplace; that means the TV (much less important) would have to sit inside the fireplace for them to work together (normally the TV's in a corner). So if we want the best audio we can get, and an open fire, and a TV in the room - we're stuck. Though the combination might be effective for a few minutes to watch the end of Gotterdammerung, especially if we had buckets of Rhine water on hand.

knight66

I ended up with an extra DVD player, don't ask. I hitched it up to my hi-fi, so I do sometimes just listen to the DVDs. I know that does not altogether make sense, but it means I do hear them in much better sound than on my TV. I am contemplating buying separate speakers for the TV, but I am not sure yet about the benefit/deficit ratio. I don't want to be able to see the damned things.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

False_Dmitry

Quote from: Elgarian on August 07, 2010, 01:04:30 AMThough the combination might be effective for a few minutes to watch the end of Gotterdammerung, especially if we had buckets of Rhine water on hand.

All you need is a team of Nibelungs to slave for you.  They are quite dapper at smithying a few wall-brackets for the speakers, for example :)   Or you could have them dig you a subterranean listening chamber to your own acoustically-approved specifications.
____________________________________________________

"Of all the NOISES known to Man, OPERA is the most expensive" - Moliere

Elgarian

Quote from: False_Dmitry on August 07, 2010, 01:14:51 AM
All you need is a team of Nibelungs to slave for you.
Can they be ordered through Amazon?

knight66

There ones are obviously accustomed to dealing with fireplaces and chimneys; seem like the right gang for you.



Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

False_Dmitry

Quote from: Elgarian on August 07, 2010, 01:38:48 AM
Can they be ordered through Amazon?

For he who holds the Ring, anything can be ordered :)

However, I would recommend removing the Tarnhelm when delivery is expected - to avoid disappointment and having to collect your Nibelungs from the Mail Depot later.
____________________________________________________

"Of all the NOISES known to Man, OPERA is the most expensive" - Moliere

DavidRoss

Quote from: Elgarian on August 07, 2010, 01:04:30 AM
Yes, I sometimes contemplate attempting something along those lines, but it's a small room, and the room logistics don't support the combination: the best place for the hifi speakers (by far the most important consideration) is on either side of the fireplace; that means the TV (much less important) would have to sit inside the fireplace for them to work together (normally the TV's in a corner). So if we want the best audio we can get, and an open fire, and a TV in the room - we're stuck. Though the combination might be effective for a few minutes to watch the end of Gotterdammerung, especially if we had buckets of Rhine water on hand.
;D
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

karlhenning


Elgarian

#292


Having been less than enthusiastic about Karajan's Rheingold movie, I thought I'd better take a look at the Levine DVD set I'd bought, and know the worst, as it were.

Well ... there was no worst! I watched the first hour of Walkure and thought it was superb! Despite the poor sound quality from the TV, I was gripped from the start. Hunding is wonderfully well portrayed (I love the way his eyes light up when Siegmund offers to tell him about his recent fight), and Jessye Norman is an unexpectedly convincing and sympathetic Sieglinde. My earlier uncertainties about the Levine approach were vapourised within mere minutes of listening to the dramatic intro. I love this, and I think for the sake of this Ring alone I'm going to have to find some way of squeezing better sound out of  the TV.

I've read some criticism of this along the lines 'yes, detailed traditional production but boring'. Well, boring it is NOT. These three characters are continually alert to each other through eye contact, facial expressions and gesture; and the music vividly speaks through them and through the orchestra. Every line seems so loaded with musical and dramatic significance that I can't afford to lose attention for even a few seconds without missing something. Marvellous stuff. My thanks to those who persisted in recommending it to me.

karlhenning

Glad that Levine has been vindicated, and that you take such pleasure in the production, Alan!

Elgarian

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 07, 2010, 09:23:43 AM
Glad that Levine has been vindicated
Continuing the vindication of Levine....



I've now watched Act 3 as well as Act 1 (wicked to skip Act 2, I know, and I expect I'll be made to suffer for it in Valhalla). This time I got a significant boost in sound quality by using headphones (fine when I'm on my own, useless when not). I'd run out of superlatives, trying to describe this. Certainly my earlier comments on the beginning of Act 3, based on a youtube viewing, are fit only for the rubbish bin.

Musically, I can't think of anything to comment on adversely. As a musico-dramatic whole, it's entirely convincing, and I found myself immersed in it, imaginatively, in a way that I felt would make any subsequent criticism of mine seem impertinent. The change taking place in Wotan is palpable, as he discovers the meaning of real personal loss (Brunnhilde), and of love. Thoroughly heart-rending. I wept buckets.

As a by-the-way: how do other people cope with the fact that in the famous beginning section, the Valkyies are all singing about what they're doing with their horses, when there's not a horse in sight? (Watching one of the valkyries almost pretending to trot reminded me alarmingly of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.)

DarkAngel

#295
Quote from: Elgarian on August 08, 2010, 08:02:10 AM
Continuing the vindication of Levine....



I've now watched Act 3 as well as Act 1 (wicked to skip Act 2, I know, and I expect I'll be made to suffer for it in Valhalla). This time I got a significant boost in sound quality by using headphones (fine when I'm on my own, useless when not). I'd run out of superlatives, trying to describe this. Certainly my earlier comments on the beginning of Act 3, based on a youtube viewing, are fit only for the rubbish bin.

Musically, I can't think of anything to comment on adversely. As a musico-dramatic whole, it's entirely convincing, and I found myself immersed in it, imaginatively, in a way that I felt would make any subsequent criticism of mine seem impertinent. The change taking place in Wotan is palpable, as he discovers the meaning of real personal loss (Brunnhilde), and of love. Thoroughly heart-rending. I wept buckets.

As a by-the-way: how do other people cope with the fact that in the famous beginning section, the Valkyries are all singing about what they're doing with their horses, when there's not a horse in sight? (Watching one of the Valkyries almost pretending to trot reminded me alarmingly of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.)

They don't want to be that literal in the staging otherwise the critics would be merciless in saying this is a dumbed down version that requires no thinking or imagination from viewer, there has to be some symbolism or reading between the lines....... ;)

If you collect many opera DVDs you can count on 1980-90s MET productions to have lavish stage sets and costuming and also attract some of the top singing talent, that doesn't mean it will be the best version but they have all the ingredients needed for success

By now you know what the next purchase should be......
There can be no money better spent than upgrading to a good large screen HD home theater system, the opera experience is amazing, besides huge picture with subtitles can you imagine Wagner in high quality surround sound, oh my

Scarpia

Quote from: Elgarian on August 08, 2010, 08:02:10 AMAs a by-the-way: how do other people cope with the fact that in the famous beginning section, the Valkyies are all singing about what they're doing with their horses, when there's not a horse in sight? (Watching one of the valkyries almost pretending to trot reminded me alarmingly of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.)

I'm glad you're enjoying the set.  I believe the Met has regularly used horses on the stage, but only in ceremonial scenes (in Aida, for example).  I'd imagine they would be there if the stage director thought they would be effective.  As things stand a bit of willful suspension of disbelief is in order.

Elgarian

Quote from: Scarpia on August 08, 2010, 09:01:39 AM
I'm glad you're enjoying the set.  I believe the Met has regularly used horses on the stage, but only in ceremonial scenes (in Aida, for example).  I'd imagine they would be there if the stage director thought they would be effective.  As things stand a bit of willful suspension of disbelief is in order.
Actually, I think a bunch of horses on the stage would wreck the whole proceedings. I suppose it's Wagner's theatrical decision I'm questioning, rather than the production team's.

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on August 08, 2010, 08:51:39 AM
By now you know what the next purchase should be......
There can be no money better spent than upgrading to a good large screen HD home theater system, the opera experience is amazing, besides huge picture with subtitles can you imagine Wagner in high quality surround sound, oh my
I need no persuading about the awesomeness, but alas this is a small room that has to be lived in as well as listened in, so quite a lot of compromises have to be made.

Scarpia

Quote from: Elgarian on August 08, 2010, 11:03:45 AM
I need no persuading about the awesomeness, but alas this is a small room that has to be lived in as well as listened in, so quite a lot of compromises have to be made.

Actually a good flat panel can be quite unobtrusive, no deep box, etc.   For audio, various companies make very compact rigs for providing decent (if not audiophile) sound.  One format is the "sound bar" which you put above or below the screen, and which provides virtual surround sound.  One example is by Polk, I'm sure other companies make them.  (Haven't heard one myself, so can't vouch for the quality of sound).