Wagner One Ring to rule them all...

[Brahmsian]

I must say I enjoyed watching the Das Rheingold "Copenhagen Ring" DVD.  Very modern production.  How do others view the "Copenhagen Ring"? 

[AndyD.]

The Bohm is really good, one of the best for me. The Solti has an awe-inspiring Siegfried and an absolutely incredible Gotterdammerung, in my humble opinion.

For Die Walkure there are so many great choices. The Karajan had a tremendous 1st act...nah, it's all pretty darn good! I like the whole, oddly intimate Karajan set (in fact, the Karajan is, with the Bohm, Solti, and mono Krauss a must buy). The idea of what Karajan did, the way he approached the Ring in his classic recording seemed kind of off putting to me when I first read up on it...and then I heard it. Once you listen to it, it's easy to forget any preconceptions. Fascinating, a great interpretation. I wouldn't make it one "to rule all" though.

For "one" to rule all...the Bohm and the Solti, for two different sides .

[bigshot]

I used to recommend the Solti and the Bohm, but I've become completely bowled over by the new Valencia Ring blurays. It's very good on just about all levels, which is rare in a work this size. And having it on video with subtitles makes getting into the drama easier.

[yashin]

The Copenhagen Ring cycle is terrific. Highly recommend and enjoyed this modern production.

[marvinbrown]

The Bohm is really good, one of the best for me. The Solti has an awe-inspiring Siegfried and an absolutely incredible Gotterdammerung, in my humble opinion.

For Die Walkure there are so many great choices. The Karajan had a tremendous 1st act...nah, it's all pretty darn good! I like the whole, oddly intimate Karajan set (in fact, the Karajan is, with the Bohm, Solti, and mono Krauss a must buy). The idea of what Karajan did, the way he approached the Ring in his classic recording seemed kind of off putting to me when I first read up on it...and then I heard it. Once you listen to it, it's easy to forget any preconceptions. Fascinating, a great interpretation. I wouldn't make it one "to rule all" though.

For "one" to rule all...the Bohm and the Solti, for two different sides .

  Hello Andy  !

  It pleases me to read that you think highly of Karajan's Ring (a must buy you say??).  Trouble is for every good review I find I also find a discouraging review. So the Karajan Ring has been sitting in my amazon.co.uk basket, languishing there for the past couple of weeks.    From what I have read so far:

  Pros of Karajan's Ring:
  1) Most beautiful Ring on Record
  2) The BPO shine
  3) Karajan is able to find "emotions", "nuances" in the score no other conductor has been able to find.  Not 100% sure what all of this means but it is intriguing.
  4) Studio recording, excellent sound

  Cons of Karajan's Ring:

  1) Too pretty to be dramatic
  2) Less than stellar cast in the title roles (esp. Wotan and Brunhilde)
  3) Tempos a bit sluggish and slow and that decreases the excitement.
  4) The worst one is THIS IS NOT WAGNER'S RING THIS IS KARAJAN'S RING!


My heart is into buying it but the flesh.......the flesh is weak (I just can't get my index finger to click the proceed to checkout button).  Maybe Sarge (Karajan's Ring is his favorite Ring), you and Jezetha need to come over and slap some sense into me  !!

  OH I JUST CAN'T MAKE UP MY MIND............ !

  marvin

   

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

BUY!!! The Descent into Nibelheim, e.g., is the most thrilling there is (for me). You can listen for yourself on YouTube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCXxr44gh0U

[Sergeant Rock]

BUY!!! The Descent into Nibelheim, e.g., is the most thrilling there is (for me).

The end of Rheingold, too, is just tremendous in the Karajan. Those Berlin horns even outshine Vienna's.

Cons of Karajan's Ring:

  1) Too pretty to be dramatic
  2) Less than stellar cast in the title roles (esp. Wotan and Brunhilde)
  3) Tempos a bit sluggish and slow and that decreases the excitement.


My heart is into buying it but the flesh.......the flesh is weak (I just can't get my index finger to click the proceed to checkout button).  Maybe Sarge (Karajan's Ring is his favorite Ring), you and Jezetha need to come over and slap some sense into me  !!

The "too pretty to be dramatic" criticism is bullshit. Gorgeous it is but when power is called for Karajan delivers. I think no one has a more "dramatic" end to Act I Walküre than Janowitz, Vickers and Karajan. Karajan may not be quite as overwhelming as Solti in some instances but, hey, power ain't the be all end all of the Ring. You notice Wagner is actually stingy with his "big" moments.

Dernesch is a tremendous Brunnhilde, softer, more feminine, more womanly, than Nilsson with a tone of voice that appeals more to me. If Stewart is not among my favorite Wotans (those would be Fischer-Dieskau in Karajan's Rheingold, and Tomlinson in Barenboim's Ring) he's still very good and I prefer his more youthful voice to Hotter's old fart Wotan for Solti. The real weak link in the Karajan Ring is Jess Thomas's Siegfried but over the years I've come to appreciate his take on the character too.

Tempo...yeah, Karajan can be slow but not excessively slow. He's no Goodall or Knappertsbusch. Still, I prefer Bohm's tempos, and Krauss's.

4) The worst one is THIS IS NOT WAGNER'S RING THIS IS KARAJAN'S RING!

And Solti's Ring is not Wagner's Ring, it's Culshaw's Ring

Marvin, have you heard Böhm's Ride of the Valkyries yet? Best ever!

Sarge

[marvinbrown]

 

  Hello There Sarge!  Yes of course I just finished Die Walkure last night and it blew me away!  The Ride of the Vikings is dripping with excitement and adrenaline!  I am much preferring the Bohm Ring to Solti and I have said this a few times as I am working my way through Bohm's Ring and comparing it to Solti's. 

  Back to Karajan, I much appreciate your and Jezetha's responses.  I will eventually buy it that I am sure, I know myself.  But because it is going to cost me a little under £70 (it's not cheap Sarge!)  I just wanted that extra nudge.  I will say this though I adore Karajan's Parsifal and worship his Die Meistersinger.  There are passages of shear beauty in Karajan's Die Meistersinger.  It is that beauty that I am expecting to find in the Ring and it is that beauty that is pushing me to buy his Ring Cycle. 

  I will let everyone know once I have pulled the trigger on this set.  For tonight though I shall listen to Bohm's Siegfried!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Enjoy your Siegfried! As for Karajan's Parsifal and Meistersinger, they are firm favourites with me, too...

[kaergaard]

And Solti's Ring is not Wagner's Ring, it's Culshaw's Ring

Amen to that; have been harping about it all the time: It's not a performance, it's an electronically manufactured best seller!

But to the topic, which expresses one's personal taste only, since Karajan and Böhm we were fortunate to have many other Ring productions to enjoy, accept or reject. Among my favourites to rule is The Copenhagen Ring; Kasper Bech Holten's fresh and new conception is thought-provoking and challenging, putting the moss brains back under their rocks.

But then there is The Valencia Ring, with stunning performances by the La Fura Dels Baus group, and of course great singer-actors in the regular cast.

A third: The Netherlandse, with Rydl's stunning Hagen interpretation.

[Scarpia]

Back to Karajan, I much appreciate your and Jezetha's responses.  I will eventually buy it that I am sure, I know myself.  But because it is going to cost me a little under £70 (it's not cheap Sarge!)  I just wanted that extra nudge.  I will say this though I adore Karajan's Parsifal and worship his Die Meistersinger.  There are passages of shear beauty in Karajan's Die Meistersinger.  It is that beauty that I am expecting to find in the Ring and it is that beauty that is pushing me to buy his Ring Cycle. 

I think Karajan's studio performance is the best, but I have problems with the audio.  Some places where there is distortion in the voices, and generally the orchestra sound not as opulent as it could be.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Karajan's tempo can also be way too quick sometimes: not really on-topic but he conducts Parsifal way too fast at some points, especially with Grail motive, which is supposed to be slow and solemn.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Karajan's tempo can also be way too quick sometimes: not really on-topic but he conducts Parsifal way too fast at some points, especially with Grail motive, which is supposed to be slow and solemn.

Isn't it a fact that Wagner's motifs are pliable entities, which can be stretched, shortened, slowed down and speeded up, harmonically changed, melodically altered et cetera? Where in Parsifal do you think Karajan chooses a wrong tempo? (No rush! But I am interested.)

[Scarpia]

Karajan's tempo can also be way too quick sometimes: not really on-topic but he conducts Parsifal way too fast at some points, especially with Grail motive, which is supposed to be slow and solemn.

I don't find that to be true.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Err....the one Ring that's been 'forgotten by them all', yet fully deserving wider acclaim, is this wonderfully spirited live Bavarian Ring from Sawallisch. Sparkling sound rounds out a front runner that has sadly never seemed to make any headway on GMG. Shame. Doesn't help that it's now OOP.   

[knight66]

Although I don't know it, the Baremboim Ring is also supposed to have a lot of merits.

It is good to read so much praise for Karajan. I seem to recall getting shouted down in the old site whenever I said how much I enjoyed some of his Wagner. I would never part with his Gotterdammerung and find the combination of the lyrical and dramatic to be exactly to my taste. I love Dernsch, fresh and feminine and we even get Janowitz in another Wagner role that fits her well. I also take well to Helge Brilioth. His scene with the Rhine maidens is just beautiful and I am wedded to the drama of the scenes where Brunhilde curses her errant lover and later the call of the vassals, wonderful horn playing and such open forward sound. The end of the opera is overwhelming.

I have his Walkure, much as I enjoy Act 1, except for a mauled Wintersturme, I have never been a fan of Crespin. But there is a lot to enjoy and at least she does not sound dry and over stressed as do so many newer models do.

And another resounding endorsement for the Copenhagen Ring, intelligent and engrossing. Very well sung and played...and conducted. Highly recommended.

Mike

[marvinbrown]

BUY!!! The Descent into Nibelheim, e.g., is the most thrilling there is (for me). You can listen for yourself on YouTube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCXxr44gh0U

  Spellbinding Jezetha! The scene where Alberich becomes invisible and wollups Mime with the wip sent shivers down my spine.  It is a real shame Karajan was not able to complete the cycle on DVD!

   I take it that in the youtube clip you posted above the audio was from the CD recording of Karajan's Ring?

  marvin

[marvinbrown]

Err....the one Ring that's been 'forgotten by them all', yet fully deserving wider acclaim, is this wonderfully spirited live Bavarian Ring from Sawallisch. Sparkling sound rounds out a front runner that has sadly never seemed to make any headway on GMG. Shame. Doesn't help that it's now OOP.   

  I am ashamed to say that Ihave not even heard of this Ring cycle....and now it is out of print  !

  marvin

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

  Spellbinding Jezetha! The scene where Alberich becomes invisible and wollups Mime with the wip sent shivers down my spine.  It is a real shame Karajan was not able to complete the cycle on DVD!

   I take it that in the youtube clip you posted above the audio was from the CD recording of Karajan's Ring?

No. But this is the sound you'll be getting. (The Wotan is Thomas Stewart, if I'm listening correctly, not the Fischer-Dieskau of the CD recording). Btw - I personally think that the Descent into Nibelheim marks the moment Wagner becomes WAGNER, the power of it is extraordinary and surpasses anything he had done so far.

[Harry]

I am so happy, I am not ruled by Wagner, in fact I have no single work of him in my collection.....anymore.