Wagner One Ring to rule them all...

Started by canninator, September 24, 2007, 03:37:41 AM

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J.Z. Herrenberg

#440
Quote from: marvinbrown on May 06, 2011, 12:46:45 AM

    Wagner in English???  :o  Yes I suppose one can argue that English is a "Germanic" language but Wagner?? in English??   I'd say the essence of Wagner has be destroyed!  Wagner spent years writing the words to his music dramas and I would argue that the sound of the German language, German words and inflections were critical in the composition of those music dramas!   

  Edit: Many will disagree with me and are free to do so  $:) !
  marvin


You might want to read this article about Andrew Porter's translation...


http://www.mediafire.com/file/0yb9bspfsbn/Andrew%20Porter%27s%20Wagner%20translation.pdf


P.S. It also contains a review of the Goodall Ring.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

karlhenning

Quote from: marvinbrown on May 06, 2011, 12:46:45 AM

    Wagner in English???  :o  Yes I suppose one can argue that English is a "Germanic" language but Wagner?? in English??   I'd say the essence of Wagner has be destroyed!  Wagner spent years writing the words to his music dramas . . . .

Yes, but it isn't as if it were immortal poetry ; )

Seriously, that is the fundamental challenge of all opera singing translations (let alone such projects as Berlioz setting Shakespeare as opera, &c. en français!)  I think the argument you offer is actually much stronger in the case of Béla Balázs's libretto to Bartók's A kékszakállú herceg vára — which actually is enchanting poetry — and yet (as I said above) the English version works. Does it replace the Magyar original? Certainly not; but it is a fine alternative.

marvinbrown



  Wagner fans.......I did the unthinkable!  Last night I downloaded, yes that's right DOWNLOADED  :o :o my first opera ever from amazon.co.uk mp3 store!  I promised myself I would never do this but the deal was too good to pass up!  I paid £7.98 for this:

 

  Why?...............HOTTER!!!!  HANS HOTTER!!! I need to hear Hotter at his best before I die.  I can not afford Keilberth's Ring in stereo so I had to settle for the next best thing (Krauss 1953 in mono  :-\).  I am preparing myself for the less than ideal sound but I just hope it is not as bad as the sound on Furtwangler's RAI recording.

  MP3 files from amazon.co.uk are created using variable bit rates for optimal audio quality and file sizes, aiming at an average of 256 kilobits per second (kbps)!

  I will listen to Das Rheingold tonight.....wish me luck!

  marvin

   

karlhenning


AndyD.

Marvin, that Krauss deal you got was a great one. That is an excellent performance, Hotter is terrific.
http://andydigelsomina.blogspot.com/

My rockin' Metal wife:


Sergeant Rock

Quote from: marvinbrown on May 17, 2011, 02:21:23 AM
Wagner fans.......I did the unthinkable!  Last night I downloaded, yes that's right DOWNLOADED  :o :o my first opera ever from amazon.co.uk mp3 store!  I promised myself I would never do this but the deal was too good to pass up!  I paid £7.98

Nice price. You should be happy with it (provided the sound quality doesn't turn you off). Siegfried is my favorite part of Krauss's cycle...in fact, it's my favorite Siegfried period. Swiftly paced, really exciting.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

AndyD.

Quote from: Leon on May 17, 2011, 05:48:32 AM
Amazon US also has that Krauss download - as well as Der Ring des Nibelungen (Bayreuth 1952) by Joseph Keilberth - each @ $11.98.

I am going for them since I have no problem with the sound quality of Amazon downloads.


They are both really good performances, it's just that they are also very old performances, with the accompanying have-to-get-used-to-it sound. At least, I think that's what Sarge meant.

In the case of the Krauss, I think that particular performance is ideal if you're looking for a really classic mono set with incredible vocals.
http://andydigelsomina.blogspot.com/

My rockin' Metal wife:


Sergeant Rock

Quote from: AndyD. on May 17, 2011, 06:19:19 AM
They are both really good performances, it's just that they are also very old performances, with the accompanying have-to-get-used-to-it sound. At least, I think that's what Sarge meant.

It was what I meant. I should have been clearer.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Dancing Divertimentian

#448
Here's a new issue of that Krauss Ring apparently utilizing the master tapes for the first time:


[asin]B003WFKJRE[/asin]


But I have to admit that despite all the praise heaped on this Ring - principally on account of the singers - I've never felt it lives up to the hype. Mainly because I don't feel we get the full canopy of Wagner's intentions due to the insufficient orchestral presentation. IOW, the orchestra is fatally recessed in the sonic murk.

I've never been able to get past that despite the "legendary singers" that this Ring is propped up on. It probably doesn't help that I don't like Varnay either so that's strike two right there... ;D

Although I wonder how improved the sound is on this new Orfeo release...


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mirror Image

The only Ring cycle I own is Barenboim's and I haven't heard a note of it.

[asin]B004FLKV5O[/asin]

marvinbrown

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on May 17, 2011, 04:46:38 PM
Here's a new issue of that Krauss Ring apparently utilizing the master tapes for the first time:


[asin]B003WFKJRE[/asin]


But I have to admit that despite all the praise heaped on this Ring - principally on account of the singers - I've never felt it lives up to the hype. Mainly because I don't feel we get the full canopy of Wagner's intentions due to the insufficient orchestral presentation. IOW, the orchestra is fatally recessed in the sonic murk.

I've never been able to get past that despite the "legendary singers" that this Ring is propped up on. It probably doesn't help that I don't like Varnay either so that's strike two right there... ;D

Although I wonder how improved the sound is on this new Orfeo release...

  Not sure about that remastering on the Orfeo set but last night I listened to the first 2 Acts of Krauss's Das Rheingold (Archipel) and I hear what you say about the orchestra being fatally recessed.  But the voices, good heavens the voices were spectacular.  I was instantly hooked.  From what I have heard so far I would say that the Krauss Ring is the direct opposite of the Karajan Ring where I was begging for more vocal power (esp. in Die Walkure) at the expense of the BPO's superb playing.  To each his own I guess!

  marvin

marvinbrown

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 17, 2011, 05:16:34 PM
The only Ring cycle I own is Barenboim's and I haven't heard a note of it.

[asin]B004FLKV5O[/asin]

  Never heard this set, and I know nothing about it.  HMV have a few copies left on sale at £60 each and have had them for many months.  They don't seem to be flying off the shelves for some reason  ???.

  marvin

Brahmsian

What is the lowest price anyone has ever seen the Solti/WP Ring set at?  I want it so bad, but it is so expensive.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: ChamberNut on May 18, 2011, 05:53:07 AM
What is the lowest price anyone has ever seen the Solti/WP Ring set at?  I want it so bad, but it is so expensive.

Amazon DE has a "like new" copy for 55.99 Euro, That's about 77 Canadian dollars. I bought my Solti Ring when the price dipped momentarily a few years ago in Germany to 65 Euro. It's considerably more now (€100-125)
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"


Brahmsian

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 18, 2011, 06:04:42 AM
Amazon DE has a "like new" copy for 55.99 Euro, That's about 77 Canadian dollars. I bought my Solti Ring when the price dipped momentarily a few years ago in Germany to 65 Euro. It's considerably more now (€100-125)

Great, thanks for that info and link, Sarge.  Much appreciated.  :)

karlhenning

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 18, 2011, 06:10:38 AM
Sacrée vache, but that's a steal!

Or should I have said . . . Heilige Kuh . . . ?

Sergeant Rock

the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 18, 2011, 06:10:38 AM
Sacrée vache, but that's a steal!

Unfortunately, the Bundespost usually extracts an arm, leg and your first born for overseas shipping.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

karlhenning

Demanding truly Wagnerian sacrifice!