Wagner One Ring to rule them all...

Started by canninator, September 24, 2007, 03:37:41 AM

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J.Z. Herrenberg

Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

yashin

Got a DVD today called "The Ring without words" conducted by Lorin Maazel with the Berliner Phil orchestra. Actually i am quite impressed. The sound is terrific.  Obviously Maazel has chopped it up and put it back together again. I wish he would have left the God's entry into Valhalla in there. Das Rheingold is only represented by the prelude.  Also in Siegfried the Sword forging scene is cut down drastically. The Orchestra plays beautifully and i heard instruments probably clearer than ever before. So kudos to them and Maazel.

I am not a big fan of Maazel -for one he looks bloody miserable throughout and his lethargic conducting style does not inspire. Also the auditorium looks half empty and i am not sure why.

I got this disc really cheap (around 2 UK pounds) so i cannot complain. Not sure if i would pay the full price - might have been nice on cd (think he made a similar cd years ago)

Mirror Image

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 18, 2011, 07:57:58 AM
Huzzah for vacation!

Yes, a vacation will be long overdue. I haven't had one in about three years, though I've took some time off here and there, but not a full week. Time to relax.

marvinbrown

#483
 

  Wagner fans, Ok not that I need another Ring cycle (I have Bohm, Karajan, Solti, Krauss '53 (the most vocally stunning performance of them all!!!) and Levine DVD) but what is the story with the Barenboim Ring.  I hear praise for stunning sound but criticism of less than ideal singers??  I ask because the CD version is not easy to find online and I would hate to be passing up a good offer (HMV has very few left at £60)  In addition all the Bayreuth performances I have (Bohm and Krauss) are not the best audio wise.  I have heard great things about Thomlinson's Wotan and I am familiar with Jerusalem's Siegfried (no match for Windgassen) from the Levine set but I also hear that the role of Brunhilde is not well served and some of the minor roles are inadequately cast??  I also hear that Barenboim, while more than adequate is unsuccessful at copying the great Furtwangler!

So are we looking at a mixed bag here with the stunning audio being the principal selling point of this Ring??




  marvin

DavidW

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 20, 2011, 10:27:58 PM
Yes, a vacation will be long overdue. I haven't had one in about three years, though I've took some time off here and there, but not a full week. Time to relax.

Seriously?  You'll go nuts!  Even the president takes vacations. :)

karlhenning

Heck, Bush went golfing on 9/12 (j/k, fer chrissakes)

mjwal

Goodness hides behind its gates
But even the president of the United States
Sometimes must have to stand naked...(on Bob's birthday)
The Violin's Obstinacy

It needs to return to this one note,
not a tune and not a key
but the sound of self it must depart from,
a journey lengthily to go
in a vein it knows will cripple it.
...
Peter Porter

kishnevi

#487
Quote from: marvinbrown on May 25, 2011, 12:57:45 AM
 

  Wagner fans, Ok not that I need another Ring cycle (I have Bohm, Karajan, Solti, Krauss '53 (the most vocally stunning performance of them all!!!) and Levine DVD) but what is the story with the Barenboim Ring.  I hear praise for stunning sound but criticism of less than ideal singers??  I ask because the CD version is not easy to find online and I would hate to be passing up a good offer (HMV has very few left at £60)  In addition all the Bayreuth performances I have (Bohm and Krauss) are not the best audio wise.  I have heard great things about Thomlinson's Wotan and I am familiar with Jerusalem's Siegfried (no match for Windgassen) from the Levine set but I also hear that the role of Brunhilde is not well served and some of the minor roles are inadequately cast??  I also hear that Barenboim, while more than adequate is unsuccessful at copying the great Furtwangler!

So are we looking at a mixed bag here with the stunning audio being the principal selling point of this Ring??




  marvin

Well,  if you want to avoid imitation Furtwangler, you can get the real one at a fairly good price: $43.11 from Amazon itself and $38.85 from Amazon marketplace.  (I got mine for $39.99 at Arkiv.)

[crosses fingers and hopes he's got the click me thing figured out correctly]

ETA:  apparently I haven't figured it out correctly.  Can anyone give me simple directions on how to do it?
Meanwhile, here's the old fashioned way:


Sergeant Rock

Quote from: marvinbrown on May 25, 2011, 12:57:45 AM
So are we looking at a mixed bag here with the stunning audio being the principal selling point of this Ring??

Isn't every Ring a mixed bag, Marvin? They all have strengths and weaknesses. I remember when the Keilberth 55 Ring appeared it was hailed as the greatest ever but I also remember an early buyer (who posted on the Gramophone forum) falling out of love with it after a few months. His criticism convinced me to pass. Since I'm not a Varnay fan it wouldn't likely become a favorite of mine anyway. And so it goes.

Whether you'd enjoy Barenboim or not, I can't predict. I love it. For me its strengths (which I mentioned in an earlier post) far outweigh the weaknesses.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

bigshot

#489
Quote from: marvinbrown on May 25, 2011, 12:57:45 AMWagner fans, Ok not that I need another Ring cycle (I have Bohm, Karajan, Solti, Krauss '53 (the most vocally stunning performance of them all!!!) and Levine DVD) but what is the story with the Barenboim Ring.

The Barenboim Ring is very well conducted (the staging is not good, so skip the DVD). But at this point, I'd recommend Mehta's Valencia Ring on bluray. It's stunning too. Great sound, consistently solid singing, well paced, an orchestra that really rises to the occasion, and a staging that made me rethink how I felt about modern stagings in general.

Scarpia

Quote from: bigshot on May 25, 2011, 10:16:04 AM
The Barenboim Ring is very well conducted (the staging is not good, so skip the DVD). But at this point, I'd recommend Mehta's Valencia Ring on bluray. It's stunning.

Stunning or stunningly bad, depending on your point of view (I'm of the latter inclination).

bigshot

Well, with all the obvious things it has going for it, your reaction is likely to be a personal one. That's fine. I like anchovies on my pizza and I can't stand pineapple, but I understand how others could feel differently.

karlhenning


Scarpia

Quote from: bigshot on May 25, 2011, 10:31:36 AM
Well, with all the obvious things it has going for it, your reaction is likely to be a personal one. That's fine. I like anchovies on my pizza and I can't stand pineapple, but I understand how others could feel differently.

I thought the obvious things were against it.   In the best opera performances, singers also act.  Having watched Reingold from that series, I felt that the singers felt too awkward being ferried around on little cranes, and dealing with all of the technical gadgets, to just act out their characters' emotions and reactions.  The best Rings on video (in my opinion) are the Levine/Met and the Copenhagen Ring.  No pseudo-science fiction, just put the character in a costume (fanciful if necessary) and let him or her act his or her part.

And to follow the metaphor, the Levine Ring is the pizza with pepperoni, and the Valencia ring is the pizza with pineapple.   :)

bigshot

Mehta's Walkure has some remarkable acting. The Ring starts out more symbolic than emotional. Rhinegold has always been more about posing with staffs and symbolic acting than the rest of the Ring. You should see the rest of Mehta's cycle.

I like traditional stagings too... But mostly because modern stagings usually throw Wagner's story out along with the helmets and shields. The Valencia Ring is different. It follows the action and characterization better than even some more traditional stagings. The quality of the singing is more consistent than any other modern recording, and Mehta did a great job of bringing the most out of the orchestra. If you just don't like modern staging, try just listening to Mehta's Ring.

marvinbrown

Quote from: kishnevi on May 25, 2011, 07:19:24 AM
Well,  if you want to avoid imitation Furtwangler, you can get the real one at a fairly good price: $43.11 from Amazon itself and $38.85 from Amazon marketplace.  (I got mine for $39.99 at Arkiv.)

[crosses fingers and hopes he's got the click me thing figured out correctly]

ETA:  apparently I haven't figured it out correctly.  Can anyone give me simple directions on how to do it?
Meanwhile, here's the old fashioned way:


You are not going to believe this but if that is the Furtwangler RAI set I used to own it  but I gave it away because the poor  sound as well as the below par orchestra (especially the brass section) made it quite unpleasant to listen to.



Scarpia

Quote from: bigshot on May 25, 2011, 11:46:40 AM
Mehta's Walkure has some remarkable acting. The Ring starts out more symbolic than emotional. Rhinegold has always been more about posing with staffs and symbolic acting than the rest of the Ring. You should see the rest of Mehta's cycle.

I like traditional stagings too... But mostly because modern stagings usually throw Wagner's story out along with the helmets and shields. The Valencia Ring is different. It follows the action and characterization better than even some more traditional stagings. The quality of the singing is more consistent than any other modern recording, and Mehta did a great job of bringing the most out of the orchestra. If you just don't like modern staging, try just listening to Mehta's Ring.

Ok, worth a try.  I got an offer from Borders that said I would get a 50% off coupon if I "like" them on Facebook.  I applied it to that Valencia ring and got $67 off.  But it's on backorder so who knows when it will ever show up.   :(

eyeresist

Quote from: bigshot on May 25, 2011, 10:31:36 AM
Well, with all the obvious things it has going for it, your reaction is likely to be a personal one.

Not to quibble, but ... okay, I quibble: surely all our reactions are personal?

JerryS

Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 25, 2011, 11:11:08 AM
I thought the obvious things were against it.   In the best opera performances, singers also act.  Having watched Reingold from that series, I felt that the singers felt too awkward being ferried around on little cranes, and dealing with all of the technical gadgets, to just act out their characters' emotions and reactions.  The best Rings on video (in my opinion) are the Levine/Met and the Copenhagen Ring.  No pseudo-science fiction, just put the character in a costume (fanciful if necessary) and let him or her act his or her part.

And to follow the metaphor, the Levine Ring is the pizza with pepperoni, and the Valencia ring is the pizza with pineapple.   :)

I recently saw both the Mehta Bluray ring and the Copenhagen Ring. The cranes in the Mehta Ring were generally a hindrance. A few times when they were horses they made sense, otherwise they were severe restrictions on the acting and stage direction. I found the abrupt change to the modern era very jarring in Gotterdammerung. The video effects on Bluray were sometimes very beautiful but seldom added much to the drama.

The staging and costumes of the Copenhagen ring were completely non-traditional but for me the world created by the director served to illuminate and draw out the depths of the characters. It was easy to be totally absorbed into Wagner's music-drama.
Jerry

bigshot

Quote from: eyeresist on May 25, 2011, 06:45:42 PM
Not to quibble, but ... okay, I quibble: surely all our reactions are personal?

Only if they are entirely subjective. If a reaction is based on holding the subject up to criteria for judging, it is less personal and more objective.