Wagner One Ring to rule them all...

[kishnevi]

You are not going to believe this but if that is the Furtwangler RAI set I used to own it  but I gave it away because the poor  sound as well as the below par orchestra (especially the brass section) made it quite unpleasant to listen to.

It is.  Don't know which set you had, but this is the 1990 remastering, and to my ears it sounds so far (I've only listened to Siegfried) like very excellent mono, and whatever flubs the orchestra made didn't catch my ear.   Hopefully, I'll be able to listen to the rest of the set over the next couple of days. 

If you want truly horrendous sound, try to listen to the version of the Furtwangler La Scala Ring issued on a label called Virtuoso. I have the Siegfried segment (which is why I listened to that part of the RAI ring first--I was curious about the sonic comparison).    It sounds as if the tape machine was planted somewhere in the woodwind section fo the orchestra, and for much of the opera,  you have to put your ear up to the speakers, concentrate, and you will hear an extra layer of sound which you realize is a human voice singing something or other in German.  The singers can be heard over the orchestra only when they came near the front of the stage (judging by the accompanying stage noises).   

[marvinbrown]

It is.  Don't know which set you had, but this is the 1990 remastering, and to my ears it sounds so far (I've only listened to Siegfried) like very excellent mono, and whatever flubs the orchestra made didn't catch my ear.   Hopefully, I'll be able to listen to the rest of the set over the next couple of days. 

If you want truly horrendous sound, try to listen to the version of the Furtwangler La Scala Ring issued on a label called Virtuoso. I have the Siegfried segment (which is why I listened to that part of the RAI ring first--I was curious about the sonic comparison).    It sounds as if the tape machine was planted somewhere in the woodwind section fo the orchestra, and for much of the opera,  you have to put your ear up to the speakers, concentrate, and you will hear an extra layer of sound which you realize is a human voice singing something or other in German.  The singers can be heard over the orchestra only when they came near the front of the stage (judging by the accompanying stage noises).   

  I had this which I believe is the 1990 remastering??  Unfortunately I was unable to appreciate it as much as you did, notwithstanding Furtwangler's superb conducting skills. (By the way, his Tristan und Isolde on EMI is to die for so I guess I was expecting the same for his Ring cycle)


 

  Regarding your comments on the Furtwangler La Scala recording I have not heard it. But it sounds dreadful.  As Sarge so correctly said every Ring is a mixed bag to a certain extent and reading all the posts above it seems that all of us have our ideas of what is acceptable and what isn't. 

  Finally I am going to buy that Barenboim Ring before the discount deal runs out as I do not have a modern recording of the Ring from Bayreuth in my collection and if Tomlinson is as good as they say he is this might well be worth it. In addition a BBC review of various Ring cycles recommended the Keilberth 1955 AND the Barenboim Rings as the two Rings to own.

  marvin 

[kishnevi]

  I had this which I believe is the 1990 remastering??  Unfortunately I was unable to appreciate it as much as you did, notwithstanding Furtwangler's superb conducting skills. (By the way, his Tristan und Isolde on EMI is to die for so I guess I was expecting the same for his Ring cycle)

I have that one in Brilliant's issue of the first digital remastering.   It's not overwhelming, but at least I'm able to sit through and listen to it, which I was never able to do with any Tristan before then.    I've got one other Tristan recording on my shelf--the Domingo recording, which I like about as much as the Furtwangler.  But the time differences are telling--Furtwangler is about half an hour longer, and requires 4 CDs to Pappano's 3, and from what I can find out, there aren't supposed to be any cuts in the Domingo/Pappano.  I've also got it on DVD--Barenboim at La Scala; the running time is almost exactly the same as Furtwangler, but I've yet to actually sit down and watch it, even one act at a time.

I'm listening to Das Rheingold, Scene 1,  now.   I think I just heard one of those flubs in the brass you mentioned, and the  Rhinemaidens singing together overwhelm the treble--which might be the recording, or might be the rather cheap CD player I use.    But the singing is as good as it was on Siegfried.

  Regarding your comments on the Furtwangler La Scala recording I have not heard it. But it sounds dreadful.  As Sarge so correctly said every Ring is a mixed bag to a certain extent and reading all the posts above it seems that all of us have our ideas of what is acceptable and what isn't. 

The problem I had may be due to the individual mastering of that issue; I have another recording from that label (Tosca with Callas) which is not as bad, but certainly suboptimal.   Avoid that label, but there are apparently other masterings available;  if you can audition them, you may find at least one that's acceptable.

[Scarpia]

Only if they are entirely subjective. If a reaction is based on holding the subject up to criteria for judging, it is less personal and more objective.

Ok, if you want to pretend your personal reactions are objective, no one will stop you.

[marvinbrown]

You might want to read this article about Andrew Porter's translation...


http://www.mediafire.com/file/0yb9bspfsbn/Andrew%20Porter%27s%20Wagner%20translation.pdf


P.S. It also contains a review of the Goodall Ring.

  Hello Jezetha,

  It was with great interest that I read your attached article, thank you so much for posting it and sorry to come back to you rather late with a response/reaction. It took me a while to digest it.

  First I was surprised to learn that Wagner, the German nationalist, collaborated with translators to get his operas translated in various languages and that he was not opposed to the idea in general. Granted he did not like one English translation but the principal was acceptable to him.

  It is laboriously difficult  to translate an opera from the original language to another language. I respect all the effort needed to do this successfully. However, I have to admit that I was most disturbed by some of the undesirable effects that this process creates. According to the article after Siegfried realizes that the sleeping individual (Brunhilde)  is NOT A MAN- Siegfried sings "Das ist kein Mann"! As I do not speak German I do not know if the words could come across as humorous in any way?? the music certainly does not call for humour.  That said,  I doubt German audiences were laughing when they heard this and I have never laughed as it was not in line with the emotional effect of the music when those words were sung.  However translated verbatim this yielded "It isn't a man" and "It is NOT a man" and variations thereof which when sung can be comical.  Audiences in Seattle did laugh at this. So we have a situation here where the emotional response generated by a translated text is in conflict with the emotions conveyed in the music. I do not know how to come to terms with this.

  For those of you who have the Goodall Ring has this been a problem for you?

  marvin

[bigshot]

  For those of you who have the Goodall Ring has this been a problem for you?

Not really. I saw the English Ring in Seattle and I don't remember unintentional laughter. There was laughter at Mime's dialogue in Siegfried, but that is supposed to be funny.

By the way, the best sounding Furtwangler Rai Ring was Gebhardt's transfer. It's out of print now and sells for a high price. EMI has never done this justice.

The Ring I'd like to get but won't pay the price for is Kielberth 55 on Testament. I probably should bite the bullet, but that price is galling to me.

[JerryS]

I don't have the Goodall Ring but have wanted to acquire a copy.  Unfortunately, it is hard to find and when found is very expensive.  (Presto Classical has it, but for $185.00 or there abouts, which is much more than I care to pay.)

Putting aside concerns about the Ring in English, Goodall's reputation as a Wagnerian is strong and I've read more than one survey which ranks his Ring rather high among all recorded cycles.

You may want to consider a subscription to Naxos Music Library. They have the entire Goodall ring for streaming at "CD quality" (that's what Naxos calls it, not really CD quality but I find it very listenable). The content is indexed the same as the physical CDs.  I first heard some of the Goodall ring through a single CD of the 3rd act of Gotterdammerung and loved it.   Lately I've been sampling the other operas on Naxos Music Library. The vocal cast is strong, the orchestra is very well rehearsed and the sound is exemplary. Goodall's tempi are relatively slow but almost always seem right.

I've subscribed to NML for almost a year and even at $225 a year I consider it a bargain. Some areas even have free access through libraries.

[bigshot]

The 3rd act of Götterdämmerung on Unicorn isn't the same recording as the complete set. It was recorded earlier when the cast was in the heat of performance at ENO. The immolation on the complete set is pretty incredible, but that Unicorn album is even more special. Rita Hunter is amazing.

[brunumb]

Pristine Classical have done "An astonishing sonic transformation thanks to XR remastering" of Furtwängler's 1953 Ring Cycle.  The links below to the four parts include extensive notes and samples from different reissues for comparison.

http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Vocal/PACO057.php
http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Vocal/PACO058.php
http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Vocal/PACO059.php
http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Vocal/PACO060.php

[Sergeant Rock]

Pristine Classical have done "An astonishing sonic transformation thanks to XR remastering" of Furtwängler's 1953 Ring Cycle.  The links below to the four parts include extensive notes and samples from different reissues for comparison.

http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Vocal/PACO057.php
http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Vocal/PACO058.php
http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Vocal/PACO059.php
http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Vocal/PACO060.php

Thanks for the links. I have the Gebhardt. Very interesting to hear the sonic differences.

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thanks for the links. I have the Gebhardt. Very interesting to hear the sonic differences.

Sarge

Seconded. I am listening to the excerpt from Siegried, the end of Act 1. I don't know the Furtwängler Ring, but this is very compelling!

[Sergeant Rock]

Seconded. I am listening to the excerpt from Siegried, the end of Act 1. I don't know the Furtwängler Ring, but this is very compelling!

If the Furtwängler Ring had great, or even good sound, I believe it would be, even with his second rate band, the one Ring to rule them all.

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

If the Furtwängler Ring had great, or even good sound, I believe it would be, even with his second rate band, the one Ring to rule them all.

I can well believe it. I am now listening to another excerpt, from Götterdämmerung, Hagen in jolly mood. Very good, too!

[Scarpia]

If the Furtwängler Ring had great, or even good sound, I believe it would be, even with his second rate band, the one Ring to rule them all.

That's the wonderful thing about horrible sound, it allows you to fill in what's missing with your blessed imagination and create the greatest performance ever!  I'm guessing that if I could sneak a DSD surround sound recording rig back to those sessions using my time machine you would be very disappointed.   

[Sergeant Rock]

I'm guessing that if I could sneak a DSD surround sound recording rig back to those sessions using my time machine you would be very disappointed.   

I disagree though. First, the sound isn't so bad that you can't hear how great the voices are. And second, Furtwängler's unique way with Wagner comes through clearly. He makes a most compelling case.

Years ago paulb said he didn't need any other Ring but the Rome Furtwängler. I thought he was crazy...until I finally heard it myself. I understand him now.

Sarge

[Mirror Image]

Wagnerites rejoice. I have just bought another Ring cycle and I haven't even heard the one I have yet, which is the Barenboim:

[asin]B0000042H4[/asin]

[DavidW]

My new Wagner Ring also arrived in the mail yesterday (the Neuhold superbargain).  

[marvinbrown]

Wagnerites rejoice. I have just bought another Ring cycle and I haven't even heard the one I have yet, which is the Barenboim:

[asin]B0000042H4[/asin]

  Oh Mirror Image now that was my favourite Ring for many many years and remains in my list of the  top 2-3 Rings (along with Bohm and Krauss)! This is a legendary recording with Technicolor sound and a Siegfried dripping with so much adrenaline and power enough to blow the roof off of any house!  Play it loud And enjoy it  !

  PS: I too have yet to remove the shrink wrap from my Barenboim Ring  . At the moment Villa-Lobos has my attention.

  Marvin

[Mirror Image]

  Oh Mirror Image now that was my favourite Ring for many many years and remains in my list of the  top 2-3 Rings (along with Bohm and Krauss)! This is a legendary recording with Technicolor sound and a Siegfried dripping with so much adrenaline and power enough to blow the roof off of any house!  Play it loud And enjoy it  !

  PS: I too have yet to remove the shrink wrap from my Barenboim Ring  . At the moment Villa-Lobos has my attention.

  Marvin

Thanks Marvin. I've been wanting this Ring for about two years or so. I finally just took the plunge and bought it. The Barenboim Ring from what I've read and people have told me here is excellent.

Villa-Lobos has your attention right now? Excellent, he's one of my favorite composers. Have you visited the VL composer thread? You should check it out sometime.

[marvinbrown]

Thanks Marvin. I've been wanting this Ring for about two years or so. I finally just took the plunge and bought it. The Barenboim Ring from what I've read and people have told me here is excellent.

Villa-Lobos has your attention right now? Excellent, he's one of my favorite composers. Have you visited the VL composer thread? You should check it out sometime.

  Hello,

  Yes I am currently exploring the bachianas brasileiras for the first time. I am familiar with the VL composer thread but would like to get to know VL's music well before I contribute.

  I'll have to make time for Barenboim's Ring somehow 

  marvin