Wagner One Ring to rule them all...

[Mirror Image]

  Hello,

  Yes I am currently exploring the bachianas brasileiras for the first time. I am familiar with the VL composer thread but would like to get to know VL's music well before I contribute.

  I'll have to make time for Barenboim's Ring somehow 

  marvin

The Bachianas Brasileiras are a great cycle of works. I own two cycles: Schermerhorn (Naxos) and Neschling (BIS). Both are excellent and much better than any the EMI cycle (Batiz right?), which I owned at one point but quickly sold it once I heard Neschling's performances on BIS. You may want to consider this box set at some point:

[asin]B002EP8U6K[/asin]

What's nice about this set it also contains the only cycle of the Choros available. Check it out if you have time. This is a pretty expensive set, but it's worth every penny.

[kishnevi]

My new Wagner Ring also arrived in the mail yesterday (the Neuhold superbargain).

Please report when you've given it at least a partial listen.  It's like the $5 pair of shorts I once bought at Bloomingdales, just to say I bought something for five dollars at Bloomingdales (actually they turned out to be a very nice pair of shorts)--I feel like buying it just so I can say I bought a complete Ring for under twenty dollars.

[eyeresist]

My new Wagner Ring also arrived in the mail yesterday (the Neuhold superbargain).

It sounds better with the bass turned up.

[DavidW]

Please report when you've given it at least a partial listen.  It's like the $5 pair of shorts I once bought at Bloomingdales, just to say I bought something for five dollars at Bloomingdales (actually they turned out to be a very nice pair of shorts)--I feel like buying it just so I can say I bought a complete Ring for under twenty dollars.

Well this for me is the second time that I've bought a complete Ring for under $20!

[GanChan]

Anybody here like to "Frankenstein" various bits of Rings together? For instance, I know of many Ringheads who prefer to swap out the Solti Walkure for Leinsdorf's recording. It kind of works because the  Brunnhilde is still the same (Nilsson) and George London picks up where he left off from Rheingold, leaving Hotter as a plausibly older Wanderer.

I'm doing the same thing with a conflagration of the Krauss and Keilberth ('55) Rings, and that's where I could use your advice. I began by upgrading my Krauss from the old Gala edition to the (I think) much airier and more detailed Pristine Audio remastering. After Walkure, however, I recalled that I was always driven nuts by Windgassen's mistakes in Siegfried's Forging Song, so I dropped the Keilberth Siegfried in there instead -- problem solved, and the cast is essentially identical.

Now, though, I have to make a decision about Gotterdammerung: Back to Krauss, or forward with Keilberth? Obviously the sound is much clearer on the Keilberth (even with miraculous remastering, the Krauss will always sound like '50s mono),  but common wisdom gives Krauss the win for conducting. In comparing a clip of Keilberth's Immolation Scene with that of Krauss, to give one small example, it does seem that Krauss plays through to the end of the opera with more drive and purpose than Keilberth, who plays it very lyrically but seems to lack rhythmic spine in comparison -- it flows nicely but feels slack. I wonder if that comparison holds true throughout....

Even from an audio-recording standpoint, the choice isn't totally cut and dried. The Keilberth clips made me feel like I was sitting in the middle of the trumpet section (and that they wanted me to leave, if you know what I mean). As opposed to the Krauss recording, where it sometimes sounds as if that very same brass section forgot to show up entirely....

Opinions?

[Mirror Image]

Sorry to everyone for getting the thread a bit off topic with the Villa-Lobos talk...now back to Wagner!

Tonight, I listened to Das Rheingold from this set:

[asin]B004FLKV5O[/asin]

The music was simply incredible! The only thing that I didn't like was the stage noise. I thought that this was rather distracting, but the performance itself from the vocalists, orchestra, and the conducting of Barenboim was exemplary. I particularly liked the way Barenboim allowed the music to flow naturally and the way he built the climaxes. The opening prelude had me on the edge of seat! Now onto Da Walkure.

Edit: I know the performances in this set are live recordings, but I wasn't expecting this kind of noise.

[marvinbrown]

Sorry to everyone for getting the thread a bit off topic with the Villa-Lobos talk...now back to Wagner!

Tonight, I listened to Das Rheingold from this set:

[asin]B004FLKV5O[/asin]

The music was simply incredible! The only thing that I didn't like was the stage noise. I thought that this was rather distracting, but the performance itself from the vocalists, orchestra, and the conducting of Barenboim was exemplary. I particularly liked the way Barenboim allowed the music to flow naturally and the way he built the climaxes. The opening prelude had me on the edge of seat! Now onto Da Walkure.

Edit: I know the performances in this set are live recordings, but I wasn't expecting this kind of noise.

  Live recordings usually have some stage noise which is unavoidable.  Sometimes stage noises can amplify the drama and draw me into the action, for example the sound of the sword fragments (Notung) being thrown by Mime after he fails to forge the sword for Siegfried or the sound of Siegfried running on stage to slay Fafner all adds to the excitement and drama. Admittedly I would like for these stage noises to be kept at a bare minimum.  There is nothing more irritating than hearing singers/choruses etc. shuffling on stage. 

  I must say that I was not happy when I read your review, I was so looking forward to Barenboim's Ring  ......

  marvin

[Sergeant Rock]

  I must say that I was not happy when I read your review, I was so looking forward to Barenboim's Ring  ......
marvin

His review was positive...why would that make you unhappy? Because he mentioned the stage noises? As you said, it's inevitable with any live recording. When you listen, just pretend you're actually sitting in the theater at Bayreuth. Soak up the sounds and the atmosphere.

Sarge

[Scarpia]

His review was positive...why would that make you unhappy? Because he mentioned the stage noises? As you said, it's inevitable with any live recording. When you listen, just pretend you're actually sitting in the theater at Bayreuth. Soak up the sounds and the atmosphere.

Sarge

My main frustration with the set is that the US edition of the DVD version is out of print in the US.  As far as I understand the CD set is the audio from the DVD, and you can always turn off the monitor. 

[marvinbrown]

His review was positive...why would that make you unhappy? Because he mentioned the stage noises? As you said, it's inevitable with any live recording. When you listen, just pretend you're actually sitting in the theater at Bayreuth. Soak up the sounds and the atmosphere.

Sarge

  Yes Mirror Image's review was very positive.  Perhaps I read into his criticism of the stage noise more than I should have. If he or someone else could elaborate further as to the extent of these stage noises I would be most appreciative. For example do the singers stomp on stage during the orchestral passages? Are the stage noises distracting enough to ruin the tender/emotional moments (love duets between Sieglinde & Siegmund and
Siegfried & Brunhilde or Wotan's Farewell to his daughter Brunhilde at the end of Walkure or Brunhilde's
awakening at the end of Siegfried etc.)

  Any feedback would be most appreciative, thank you.
 

  marvin

[marvinbrown]

If you find the '50s Bayreuth recordings, e.g. Krauss or Keilbert, enjoyable despite the stage noise and less than perfect audio, then you will have absolutely no complaints with the the Barenboim.  It is decidedly a worthwhile set.

  Thank you Leon much appreciated  .

  marvin

[Scarpia]

This is a bit OT - but the comments about the DVD made me wonder if there is a way to upload just the audio from a DVD into iTunes or a mp3 player like Foobar?  I have a bunch of works only on DVD that I'd like to have available on my iPod.

That is an interesting question.  The multichannel program is probably of no use, but almost every DVD has a 48 kHz uncompressed two channel program, which could be put directly into a wave file.  The DVD format is not "open" like a CD so I suppose there is little hope of "ripping" it.  But if you connected your DVD player TOSLINK digital output to a appropriate device, I wonder if it can be streamed into a file.  Probably it comes with a protection bit which forbids copying, but there might be some sort of dicey software which can ignore that.

But you are right, that is a potential down-side of the DVD edition.

[Gurn Blanston]

That is an interesting question.  The multichannel program is probably of no use, but almost every DVD has a 48 kHz uncompressed two channel program, which could be put directly into a wave file.  The DVD format is not "open" like a CD so I suppose there is little hope of "ripping" it.  But if you connected your DVD player TOSLINK digital output to a appropriate device, I wonder if it can be streamed into a file.  Probably it comes with a protection bit which forbids copying, but there might be some sort of dicey software which can ignore that.

But you are right, that is a potential down-side of the DVD edition.

To continue OT for a second (and stun my fans by posting in a Wagner topic! ) I learned how to extract audio file from a DVD a few years back. It is certainly do-able, but in the event, it took me all day with a 'cracking' software to finally produce a WAV file (no tracks yet), make a cue sheet, convert to flac tracks and eventually create some MP3's for my player. It may well be that there are now some products to do that, but back in 2006, that was a major chore. Worth the effort, but not a lot.

[DavidW]

There are software programs that can extract the audio tracks.  The ones I used several years ago are probably no longer used.  For what it is worth, the #1 program I used back then was dvd decrypter.  If you can find the modern version of that you have one of the programs that you need.

[Mirror Image]

  Yes Mirror Image's review was very positive.  Perhaps I read into his criticism of the stage noise more than I should have. If he or someone else could elaborate further as to the extent of these stage noises I would be most appreciative. For example do the singers stomp on stage during the orchestral passages? Are the stage noises distracting enough to ruin the tender/emotional moments (love duets between Sieglinde & Siegmund and
Siegfried & Brunhilde or Wotan's Farewell to his daughter Brunhilde at the end of Walkure or Brunhilde's
awakening at the end of Siegfried etc.)

  Any feedback would be most appreciative, thank you.
 

  marvin

Hey Marvin,

There was quite a bit of shuffling on the stage when the vocalists were walking around. It's pretty audible, but sometimes it's not that bad and the music simply overpowers it, which is always a good thing. Like you said, it is a live recording so it's only natural that you're going to have noise, especially in a large production as this one. I don't think the stage noise should keep you away from this set and, again, I have only heard Das Rheingold so far, so I can't comment on any of the other operas, but Barenboim is so direct and the emotion is definitely there. He's not just up there flailing his arms about like a monkey, he breathes this music from the inside out.

[Mirror Image]

A quick question for everyone: do the newly reissued Barenboim conducted recordings of Wagner's other operas come with the full librettos? Thanks in advance.

Special note: I'll consider them if they have the librettos, but if they don't, then I'll pass and just try to hunt down the originals. For me, apart of the opera experience is having the booklet to follow along if you wanted to. Trying to hunt down this website or that website takes the fun out of it I think. I also like the artwork that comes inside the booklets. I guess I'm just from a bygone era. Someone once told me that I'm an old soul in a young person's body.

[Mirror Image]

Hey Sarge!

Do you have a picture of the inside of the Karajan Ring set that you could post? I'm chomping at the bit to buy this set, I don't care what the criticisms are surrounding this set. Every Ring has it's own flaws and is not perfect. Anyway, Sarge any pictures you could possibly provide would be much appreciated! Thanks so much!

[kishnevi]

(and stun my fans by posting in a Wagner topic! )

But of which Wagner are you a fan? Josef Franz,  Johann Peter Alexander,  or Veit?


[Wikipedia is a wonderful thing.]

[Sergeant Rock]

A quick question for everyone: do the newly reissued Barenboim conducted recordings of Wagner's other operas come with the full librettos? Thanks in advance.

Can't help you. I have Barenboim's Holländer, Lohengrin, Tannhäuser and Parsifal but all are original issues.

Hey Sarge!

Do you have a picture of the inside of the Karajan Ring set that you could post? I'm chomping at the bit to buy this set, I don't care what the criticisms are surrounding this set. Every Ring has it's own flaws and is not perfect. Anyway, Sarge any pictures you could possibly provide would be much appreciated! Thanks so much!

I'm batting 0 for 2 today    I don't have Karajan's Ring box but rather each opera as they were separately released in the 80s.(Left click for full-size pic)




Sarge

[PSmith08]

Hey Sarge!

Do you have a picture of the inside of the Karajan Ring set that you could post? I'm chomping at the bit to buy this set, I don't care what the criticisms are surrounding this set. Every Ring has it's own flaws and is not perfect. Anyway, Sarge any pictures you could possibly provide would be much appreciated! Thanks so much!

I don't have pictures, but I do have the DG Originals set, as opposed to the original sets. The Karajan set is pretty similar to the Solti Ring (in its most recent incarnation). The four sets are packaged individually in cardboard clamshell boxes with the standard DG Originals layout, with the discs in paper sleeves. Each set has its own booklet—with a picture of Karajan on it, naturally. The big difference is that the Karajan outer box is one of those where the sets slide in and out from the side, while the Solti box is accessed from the top.

I'd say, for what it's worth, that Karajan's set is probably worth the expense if you've got another Ring or two. I tend to think that casting issues are more of a problem than Karajan's ideas about Wagner's score, but even at that, it's not all bad.