Wagner One Ring to rule them all...

Started by canninator, September 24, 2007, 03:37:41 AM

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Scarpia

Quote from: PSmith08 on June 16, 2011, 07:57:10 AM
I don't have pictures, but I do have the DG Originals set, as opposed to the original sets. The Karajan set is pretty similar to the Solti Ring (in its most recent incarnation). The four sets are packaged individually in cardboard clamshell boxes with the standard DG Originals layout, with the discs in paper sleeves. Each set has its own booklet—with a picture of Karajan on it, naturally. The big difference is that the Karajan outer box is one of those where the sets slide in and out from the side, while the Solti box is accessed from the top.

I'd say, for what it's worth, that Karajan's set is probably worth the expense if you've got another Ring or two. I tend to think that casting issues are more of a problem than Karajan's ideas about Wagner's score, but even at that, it's not all bad.

I had the original ones, then sold them and traded for the "Original" version.  I have the say I see no advantage in the later version.  The issues with audio engineering were not improved, and I thought the documentation with the first set was more interesting (more photos of the Salzburg production that the recordings were derived from.

AndyD.

A Sarge said, when it comes to Rings there are so many that have outstanding features. But I would settle for the Solti on a desert island, despite the often not so great Walkure. It has a lot to do with the entire production of that Ring, as well as the often excellent cast and suitably dynamic conducting.
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Mirror Image

#542
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 16, 2011, 06:38:00 AM
Can't help you. I have Barenboim's Holländer, Lohengrin, Tannhäuser and Parsifal but all are original issues.

I'm batting 0 for 2 today  :(  I don't have Karajan's Ring box but rather each opera as they were separately released in the 80s.(Left click for full-size pic)




Sarge

Cool picture, Sarge. Thanks for your help.

Mirror Image

Quote from: PSmith08 on June 16, 2011, 07:57:10 AM
I don't have pictures, but I do have the DG Originals set, as opposed to the original sets. The Karajan set is pretty similar to the Solti Ring (in its most recent incarnation). The four sets are packaged individually in cardboard clamshell boxes with the standard DG Originals layout, with the discs in paper sleeves. Each set has its own booklet—with a picture of Karajan on it, naturally. The big difference is that the Karajan outer box is one of those where the sets slide in and out from the side, while the Solti box is accessed from the top.

I'd say, for what it's worth, that Karajan's set is probably worth the expense if you've got another Ring or two. I tend to think that casting issues are more of a problem than Karajan's ideas about Wagner's score, but even at that, it's not all bad.

You've definitely wetted my appetite for Karajan's Ring now. ;) Thanks for the information.

Mirror Image

Just bought:

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This will be my third Ring. Let the insanity begin. ;) :P

PSmith08

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 16, 2011, 05:30:43 PM
You've definitely wetted my appetite for Karajan's Ring now. ;) Thanks for the information.

I think you'll find something to like about it, even if it doesn't become your first-choice set. I'd say that Von Karajan's Rheingold and Walküre are stronger than his Siegfried and Götterdämmerung, but you may find otherwise.

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#546
Quote from: PSmith08 on June 17, 2011, 08:21:10 AM
I think you'll find something to like about it, even if it doesn't become your first-choice set. I'd say that Von Karajan's Rheingold and Walküre are stronger than his Siegfried and Götterdämmerung, but you may find otherwise.

Well let's not forget I have two other Ring cycles (Barenboim, Solti). ;) It's like I've read many times before: there is no perfect Ring cycle. They all have their own strengths and weaknesses.

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#547
Been listening to:

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Listening to Das Rheingold right now and I'm VERY impressed with this performance so far. I like Karajan's approach here a lot. I'm going to try and listen to Die Walkure next. But I'm pressed for time right now, so it looks like I'll have to listen to it later on tonight, but I'm really digging the Karajan so far.

Special note to Sarge: I can certainly understand why you put Karajan on top now. You're absolutely right. This is a stunning interpretation.

Also a note on the packaging:

There are no jewel cases in this set. Each opera is housed in a cardboard box with a booklet (containing libretto of course) and paper sleeves for the discs. Each set has the covers from the remastered releases of each opera. All of these sets are housed in an outer box. The set didn't get the deluxe treatment Solti's did, but it is still a nice, attractive looking set and well worth the investment.

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Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 03, 2011, 07:35:08 AMThe end of Rheingold, too, is just tremendous in the Karajan. Those Berlin horns even outshine Vienna's.

The "too pretty to be dramatic" criticism is bullshit. Gorgeous it is but when power is called for Karajan delivers.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. This Ring is beautiful, but it doesn't lack dramatic power. I like Karajan's approach and it offers such a nice contrast to the other Ring cycles I own (Barenboim, Solti).

Mirror Image

Karajan's Ring is incredible. I can surely see what Sarge sees in it. This may end up being my favorite cycle. I like the more refined approach of Karajan, but don't let this description fool you because there is passion, fire, and virtuosity abound in this cycle. Too bad Marvin didn't get anything out of it. :-\ I wonder how Marvin is getting on with it now?

marvinbrown

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 21, 2011, 05:39:09 PM
Karajan's Ring is incredible. I can surely see what Sarge sees in it. This may end up being my favorite cycle. I like the more refined approach of Karajan, but don't let this description fool you because there is passion, fire, and virtuosity abound in this cycle. Too bad Marvin didn't get anything out of it. :-\ I wonder how Marvin is getting on with it now?

 
I will probably get chastised for posting this but here goes:

I find myself in the minority here but Karajan's Siegfried and his das Reingold were the highlights of his cycle. I was sorely disappointed with Die Walkure as I found it too docile for my taste.  I kept yearning for more, more vocal power, more aggression, more oomph! Somehow I felt Karajan was able to "shift gears" when he got to Siegfried which was a pleasant surprise.  Karajan's Götterdämmerung is the most beautiful on record.  That is its selling point.

  Personally I am very much a "vocal" "singer" fan, ie give me a superb cast (Krauss, Solti, Bohm) over a superb orchestra any day. It is here that I find Karajan's Ring most wanting. That said I would never part with it as it is beautifully recorded. Karajan's Ring is unique, one day I hope to appreciate his "chamber" approach for what it is.

  PS: I have yet to listen to Barenboim's Ring  :-\.

  marvin

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 22, 2011, 12:27:59 AMI find myself in the minority here but Karajan's Siegfried and his das Reingold were the highlights of his cycle

Agreed.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Brahmsian

I know I find myself in the minority when I say Siegfried is my favorite opera of The Ring cycle.   ;D :) 8)

I'm sure if there was a poll to pick your favorite of the four, Siegfried would probably end up in last place.  Having said that Siegfried is my favorite, Die Walkure is a very close second for me.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: JetsNut on June 22, 2011, 05:42:37 AM
I know I find myself in the minority when I say Siegfried is my favorite opera of The Ring cycle.   ;D :) 8)

I'm sure if there was a poll to pick your favorite of the four, Siegfried would probably end up in last place.  Having said that Siegfried is my favorite, Die Walkure is a very close second for me.


Interesting... My first picks are different according to different criteria - musically first pic: Götterdämmerung; emotionally: Die Walküre; dramatically: Das Rheingold; coloristically (from deepest darkness to brightest light): Siegfried.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Mirror Image

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 22, 2011, 12:27:59 AM
 
I will probably get chastised for posting this but here goes:

I find myself in the minority here but Karajan's Siegfried and his das Reingold were the highlights of his cycle. I was sorely disappointed with Die Walkure as I found it too docile for my taste.  I kept yearning for more, more vocal power, more aggression, more oomph! Somehow I felt Karajan was able to "shift gears" when he got to Siegfried which was a pleasant surprise.  Karajan's Götterdämmerung is the most beautiful on record.  That is its selling point.

  Personally I am very much a "vocal" "singer" fan, ie give me a superb cast (Krauss, Solti, Bohm) over a superb orchestra any day. It is here that I find Karajan's Ring most wanting. That said I would never part with it as it is beautifully recorded. Karajan's Ring is unique, one day I hope to appreciate his "chamber" approach for what it is.

  PS: I have yet to listen to Barenboim's Ring  :-\.

  marvin

You and I are very different in how we feel about Karajan and probably opera in general. I favor a strong orchestral presence in the music, because, for me, it tells the story just as effectively as the singing does. But I understand the importance of good vocalists, especially in Wagner's operas, but this is not a to end all thing with me as it is with some people.

Mandryka

#555
Quote from: marvinbrown on June 22, 2011, 12:27:59 AM
I  was sorely disappointed with Die Walkure as I found it too docile for my taste.  I kept yearning for more, more vocal power, more aggression, more oomph! Somehow


Well, there's a better live Karajan Walkure from the Met in 1969 -- Birgit Nilsson,  Jon Vickers, Regine Crespin,  Theo Adam. Let me know if you want a link to the recording. This has a really fantasic Bruenhilde/Siegmund duet

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 22, 2011, 12:27:59 AM
I have yet to listen to Barenboim's Ring


I am no fan of Anne Evans, but I think it's well worth seeing Kupfer's production. It is a major landmark in Wagner productions.

Quote from: JetsNut on June 22, 2011, 05:42:37 AM
I know I find myself in the minority when I say Siegfried is my favorite opera of The Ring cycle.   ;D :) 8)


I like Siegfried too. I like fairy tales. I like comedies. But I also think that Gotterdammerung, from the Hagen's watch to Siegried's death, is some of  the greatest music ever written.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

marvinbrown

Quote from: Mandryka on June 22, 2011, 10:35:25 AM
Well, there's a better live Karajan Walkure from the Met in 1969 -- Birgit Nilsson,  Jon Vickers, Regine Crespin,  Theo Adam. Let me know if you want a link to the recording. This has a really fantasic Bruenhilde/Siegmund duet

I am no fan of Anne Evans, but I think it's well worth seeing Kupfer's production. It is a major landmark in Wagner productions.

I like Siegfried too. I like fairy tales. I like comedies. But I also think that Gotterdammerung, from the Hagen's watch to Siegried's death, is some of  the greatest music ever written.

  Please provide a link, thank you.  :)

  What don't you like about Anne Evans?

  marvin

Mandryka

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 22, 2011, 11:21:02 AM
  Please provide a link, thank you.  :)

  What don't you like about Anne Evans?

  marvin

She's neither attractive to listen to nor to look at.

I'll PM you the link.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Harry Powell

If you want to listen to the best Karajan Walküre you must try the Third Act from the 1951 Bayreuth. Then I'd single out his La Scala performance in 1958.
I'm not an native English speaker, so please feel free to let me know if I'm not expressing myself clearly.

Mirror Image

Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on June 22, 2011, 06:08:07 AM

Interesting... My first picks are different according to different criteria - musically first pic: Götterdämmerung; emotionally: Die Walküre; dramatically: Das Rheingold; coloristically (from deepest darkness to brightest light): Siegfried.

I like your description here, Johan. I'm listening to Siegfried right now and it does have a lot of color. The opening prelude sounded like it came from the abyss. :)