Wagner One Ring to rule them all...

Started by canninator, September 24, 2007, 03:37:41 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

marvinbrown

#580
Quote from: rubio on June 27, 2011, 07:06:06 AM
 

Is your box set released in 2011 or is it the 2005 version (which included libretti, but now is discontinued).

  Ok Rubio now I am confused  ???, I am looking at the slim line set I have of the Barenboim Ring, you know the one I said had the 4 libretti with the leitmotifs musically (ie musical notes) annotated as they are heard.  There is no 2005 date on there  ???.  It says copyright 2009 Warner Classics & Jazz.  Did you mean 2009 and not 2005? Or is there yet a 3rd version released in 2009?? 

  EDIT: To confuse matters even further it has come to my attention that there is yet another slim line Barenboim Ring version on CD with an extra DVD added showing excerpts from the Levine DVD Ring.  What the hell is going on over at Warner Classics and Teldec? Are they toying with us?

  marvin

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 28, 2011, 01:52:04 AM
EDIT: To confuse matters even further it has come to my attention that there is yet another slim line Barenboim Ring version on CD with an extra DVD added showing excerpts from the Levine DVD Ring.  What the hell is going on over at Warner Classics and Teldec? Are they toying with us?
marvin

The DVD has excerpts from the Kupfer production (Barenboim, not Levine). That's in the box I have: complete libretti with leitmotifs, the CDs in carboard sleeves, and a DVD.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

marvinbrown

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 28, 2011, 02:06:14 AM
The DVD has excerpts from the Kupfer production (Barenboim, not Levine). That's in the box I have: complete libretti with leitmotifs, the CDs in carboard sleeves, and a DVD.

Sarge

  Thank you for correcting me Sarge.  I guess you must have the ultimate Barenboim Ring slim line package  :D!

  Seriously though why are they doing this? 3 maybe even 4 different versions, some with libretti one without, and now one with a bonus DVD the rest without, it seems unfair  >:(!

  marvin

 

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 28, 2011, 02:12:30 AMSeriously though why are they doing this? 3 maybe even 4 different versions, some with libretti one without, and now one with a bonus DVD the rest without, it seems unfair  >:(!

  marvin



The original "slim" box had the DVD. I bought it five yeas ago. The latest version (released in Germany last January) omits the DVD.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Mirror Image

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 28, 2011, 12:03:17 AM
  The problem with the RAI orchestra is that it is horrible IMHO.  The brass section is so bad to my ears that it sounds like it came from a high school band.  It is true that I favour great singers over a good orchestra but there are limits to how bad an orchestra can be before it becomes a problem for me. I believe the RAI meets those limits. I would  go so far as to say that the RAI orchestra is the worst I have heard on record.

  marvin

Thanks for clarifying this.

PSmith08

Quote from: rubio on June 23, 2011, 10:36:14 PM
I would like to sample the Barenboim Ring, and I would prefer to buy one of the original, separate operas with libretti instead of the recently released slimline, no-frills version. To me it seems very attractive to have libretti with the Leitmotiven marked. So which of the Barenboim Ring operas should I sample first?

I started with Die Walküre in the original Teldec release, largely because that was the one I found first. I also think Walküre has enough to recommend it that I don't mind owning a freestanding Walküre (I would rather not own a freestanding Siegfried, by contrast).

That having been said, I have to believe that there are still copies of the 2005 set floating around at decent prices. I haven't tracked the used market lately, so that's just conjecture on my part, though.

WagnerNut

#586
Hello everyone!

I have just finished reading through this entire thread (I'm exhausted!) and I thought I would chime in with my first post, having just discovered this forum and registered a few days ago. I have also just added the Karajan Ring to my collection and have played it through twice now. I rank it among the best Rings I own or have heard. I do find some of Karajan's interpretation off-base at times, especially in Rheingold, and I was a little disappointed by the final three minutes of Gotterdammerung, but I loved most of it. For those interested, here is a list of the Ring recordings I own, in order of preference.

Barenboim
Karajan
Janowski
Boulez
Solti
Bohm
Asher Fisch (Adelaide)
Keilberth
Haitink

However, no Ring I have heard fits the bill entirely for my tastes. The perfect Ring for me would be:

Rheingold - Barenboim or Janowski
Walkure - Leinsdorf
Siegfried - Karajan or Janowski
Gotterdammerung - Solti

Of all the Rings I have, the Keilberth is the biggest disappointment after all the hype, though I do not dislike it, and the Karajan is the most pleasant surprise, along with the Janowski.

Jeremy

Mirror Image

Quote from: WagnerNut on July 03, 2011, 01:40:09 PM
Hello everyone!

I have just finished reading through this entire thread (I'm exhausted!) and I thought I would chime in with my first post, having just discovered this forum and registered a few days ago. I have also just added the Karajan Ring to my collection and have played it through twice now. I rank it among the best Rings I own or have heard. I do find some of Karajan's interpretation off-base at times, especially in Rheingold, and I was a little disappointed by the final three minutes of Gotterdammerung, but I loved most of it. For those interested, here is a list of the Ring recordings I own, in order of preference.

Barenboim
Karajan
Janowski
Boulez
Solti
Bohm
Asher Fisch (Adelaide)
Keilberth
Haitink

However, no Ring I have heard fits the bill entirely for my tastes. The perfect Ring for me would be:

Rheingold - Barenboim
Walkure - Leinsdorf
Siegfried - Karajan
Gotterdammerung - Solti

Of all the Rings I have, the Keilberth is the biggest disappointment after all the hype, though I do not dislike it, and the Karajan is the most pleasant surprise, along with the Janowski.

Jeremy

Welcome aboard, Wagnernut! It's nice to meet another Wagner fan, although I'm a newly formed one as I have only been enjoying his music for month or two now. I own three Ring cycles: Karajan, Solti, and Barenboim. I don't think I really need anymore. I have heard the Karajan all the way through and I have really enjoyed it. The only disappointment for me was the opera Siegfried which I thought was the weakest link of the entire cycle and I'm actually talking about the music itself. It did little for me. Das Rheingold, Die Wulkure, and Gotterdammerung were fantastic operas. I'm not an opera fan, but I do enjoy them on occasion and the thing I love about Wagner's operas are they really are a perfect integration of vocals and music. In many operas you get the sense that the music itself sometimes takes a backseat, but not in Wagner. The music is front and center and there are enough purely orchestral moments to keep me interested.

I came to Wagner rather late having only been familiar with his overtures/preludes and the work Siegfried Idyll. I'm not sure what prompted me to actually buy a Ring cycle, but I'm glad I did, because now I own three! :) I'm also interested in Wagner's other operas too like Parsifal which I have heard twice now and Tannhauser. I'm still making my way through Tristan und Isolde.

Anyway, it's good to have you here.

Mandryka

Quote from: WagnerNut on July 03, 2011, 01:40:09 PM
Of all the Rings I have, the Keilberth is the biggest disappointment after all the hype, though I do not dislike it, and the Karajan is the most pleasant surprise, along with the Janowski.

Jeremy

Do you mean the one with Hotter singing Gunter?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

bigshot

Siegfried is the weak link in a lot of cycles. The sets with Sieggies that stood out as being very good to me were Janowski and Goodall.

marvinbrown

#590
Quote from: bigshot on July 05, 2011, 01:35:23 AM
Siegfried is the weak link in a lot of cycles. The sets with Sieggies that stood out as being very good to me were Janowski and Goodall.

  Personally I love Solti's Siegfried (very powerful and exciting)! Solti really nailed Siegfried on the head with his brisk tempi and adrenaline charged conducting! There is so much excitement in that recording which suits the action well as it unfolds.  True, Bohm is far better at presenting a more musically unified and seemlessly flowing Siegfried but Solti's take is remarkably captivating in its own way. Sarge  once called Solti's Siegfried a "tour de force" and with swords fashioned, and dragons and trolls slayed et al, a tour de force approach works exceptionally well, IMHO.

  ALL WAGNERIANS HERE ARE FREE TO DISAGREE WITH ME OF COURSE!

  marvin

Mirror Image

Quote from: marvinbrown on July 05, 2011, 04:25:18 AMALL WAGNERIANS HERE ARE FREE TO DISAGREE WITH ME OF COURSE!

  marvin

No problem here. ;)

WagnerNut

Quote from: Mandryka on July 04, 2011, 08:55:58 PM
Do you mean the one with Hotter singing Gunter?

Sure, the singing is the best thing about the Keilberth Ring, especially in Siegfried, but I wasn't that impressed by the conducting or the sound quality, exceptional though it was for 1955. I'm just saying it's not the Ring I want to go back to time and time again. That's currently reserved for Karajan, Janowski, Solti, Barenboim and Boulez. Of course my tastes are constantly changing and, I hope, evolving.

WagnerNut

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 03, 2011, 06:43:09 PM
I came to Wagner rather late having only been familiar with his overtures/preludes and the work Siegfried Idyll. I'm not sure what prompted me to actually buy a Ring cycle, but I'm glad I did, because now I own three! :) I'm also interested in Wagner's other operas too like Parsifal which I have heard twice now and Tannhauser. I'm still making my way through Tristan und Isolde.

Anyway, it's good to have you here.

Thanks for the welcome. Don't forget Lohengrin. I can heartily recommend Semyon Bychkov's amazing recording in addition to the Kempe. And the Donad Runnicles Tristan with Christine Brewer is a beautiful live recording that's not often praised.

Chaszz

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 03, 2011, 06:43:09 PM
Welcome aboard, Wagnernut! It's nice to meet another Wagner fan, although I'm a newly formed one as I have only been enjoying his music for month or two now. I own three Ring cycles: Karajan, Solti, and Barenboim. I don't think I really need anymore. I have heard the Karajan all the way through and I have really enjoyed it. The only disappointment for me was the opera Siegfried which I thought was the weakest link of the entire cycle and I'm actually talking about the music itself. It did little for me. Das Rheingold, Die Wulkure, and Gotterdammerung were fantastic operas. I'm not an opera fan, but I do enjoy them on occasion and the thing I love about Wagner's operas are they really are a perfect integration of vocals and music. In many operas you get the sense that the music itself sometimes takes a backseat, but not in Wagner. The music is front and center and there are enough purely orchestral moments to keep me interested.

I came to Wagner rather late having only been familiar with his overtures/preludes and the work Siegfried Idyll. I'm not sure what prompted me to actually buy a Ring cycle, but I'm glad I did, because now I own three! :) I'm also interested in Wagner's other operas too like Parsifal which I have heard twice now and Tannhauser. I'm still making my way through Tristan und Isolde.

Anyway, it's good to have you here.

The love duet which takes up a big part of Act II of Tristan und Isolde is my personal nomination for the greatest piece of music in Western history. There are no operas in his works from the Dutchman onward which are not very great. Every one of them rewards a Wagner fan with many hours, over many years, of intense pleasure.

The orchestra is more important as almost a separate player or character in Wagner's works because of his deep interest in Greek tragedy. In Greek tragedy the chorus is an additional actor, commenting on and bearing sympathetic or awed witness to the struggles onstage. Wagner uses the orchestra as an analogue of the Greek tragic chorus. Additionally he underlines the genesis of opera itself in Renaissance Italy out of a desire to revive Greek tragedy.

He adds yet another dimension by having the orchestra sometimes comment, via leitmotifs, on feelings and motivations that are not consciously realized by the protagonists, thus pioneering the pre-Freudian exploration of the unconscious in the arts like other 19th century giants such as Dostoyevsky.

Mirror Image

Quote from: WagnerNut on July 05, 2011, 03:54:26 PM
Thanks for the welcome. Don't forget Lohengrin. I can heartily recommend Semyon Bychkov's amazing recording in addition to the Kempe. And the Donad Runnicles Tristan with Christine Brewer is a beautiful live recording that's not often praised.

All I own is the Solti Lohengrin. I've heard good things about Bychkov's recording of it. But, right now, I have enough on my plate as far as Wagner goes. I still haven't made it through Tristan und Isolde yet and haven't even started listening to Lohengrin. At some point, I'm going to revisit Karajan's Ring cycle as it was very enjoyable experience. I do need to give the Solti Ring a spin as well.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Chaszz on July 05, 2011, 04:36:44 PM
The love duet which takes up a big part of Act II of Tristan und Isolde is my personal nomination for the greatest piece of music in Western history. There are no operas in his works from the Dutchman onward which are not very great. Every one of them rewards a Wagner fan with many hours, over many years, of intense pleasure.

The orchestra is more important as almost a separate player or character in Wagner's works because of his deep interest in Greek tragedy. In Greek tragedy the chorus is an additional actor, commenting on and bearing sympathetic or awed witness to the struggles onstage. Wagner uses the orchestra as an analogue of the Greek tragic chorus. Additionally he underlines the genesis of opera itself in Renaissance Italy out of a desire to revive Greek tragedy.

He adds yet another dimension by having the orchestra sometimes comment, via leitmotifs, on feelings and motivations that are not consciously realized by the protagonists, thus pioneering the pre-Freudian exploration of the unconscious in the arts like other 19th century giants such as Dostoyevsky.

I agree with this. My primary concern in regards to Wagner is time. I have heard all of the Ring, Tannhauser, and Parsifal so far. All of these were enjoyable. I did not like Siegfried though. I found it to be the weakest musically of the entire Ring.

Brahmsian

Siegfried rocks.....and yes, Marvin, especially Solti's Siegfried.  The first time I ever listened to Siegfried, it was Solti's, and I listened to the whole thing twice in one day!   :)

But hey, everyone has their own favorite cup of tea, and I'm under no illusion that Siegfried is the most popular of the 4, in fact, I know, in general, it is the least popular.

Sergeant Rock

#598
Quote from: marvinbrown on July 05, 2011, 04:25:18 AM
Sarge  once called Solti's Siegfried a "tour de force" and with swords fashioned, and dragons and trolls slayed et al, a tour de force approach works exceptionally well, IMHO.

Yes, Siegfried is my favorite part of the Solti cycle. Krauss my favorite Siegfried of the twelve I own.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

mjwal

I don't like the singing on any modern recordings I have heard, whole or in part, though see below*. I can take the orchestra on the Furtwängler (it does sound better on the Gebhardt than the EMI), the Krauss or the '53 Keilberth, because of the total vision of the work. It may help that I have experienced the work in the theatre several times. I cannot abide Solti, frenetic and brassy, singers too old (Hotter, Windgassen) or too brilliant and cold (Nilsson). *On DVD I did enjoy the Copenhagen Ring taken as a whole. The Chereau/Bayreuth is an amazing visual interpretation, I certainly take Boulez's conducting over Solti's any day, but most of the singing...(discreet curtain is drawn)...
                                                                   Just to say where I am coming from.
If you enjoy great singing, then the 1949 Moralt may be for you: Treptow is very good, ditto Franz, and Grob-Prandl is exceptional as Brünnhilde. The orchestra is not bad at all for the time. All can be found here: http://maisumadofalsario.blogspot.com/search/label/Wagner
Choose mediafire - the rapidshare is no longer active.
The Violin's Obstinacy

It needs to return to this one note,
not a tune and not a key
but the sound of self it must depart from,
a journey lengthily to go
in a vein it knows will cripple it.
...
Peter Porter