How many Karajan Beethoven Ninths are there ... and which one is top choice?

[Mark]

Picked up Kajaran's 1977 recording with the BPO of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony yesterday from a charity shop. Now, I'm not saying I didn't enjoy it, but it wasn't terrific. Odd recording balance, I felt, particularly between chorus and orchestra in the finale. And those timpani: they sounded 'dead', with no real impact where normally I feel this. Might've been the transfer to CD that caused these perceived imperfections. Or the original engineering. I know not ...

Anyway, I think I'm right in saying Karajan made four recordings of the work - one in the 50s, two in the 60s (?), and the 1977 one which I now have. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But which one do most of you think is best? And for a bonus question, which cycle of the symphonies by Karajan overshadows the others he recorded?

Your responses will be, as ever, greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[dtwilbanks]

I'm not much on Karajan, but the concensus seems to be for his '63 cycle.

[dtwilbanks]

I'm not much on Karajan, but the concensus seems to be for his '63 cycle.

Oops. You said "9th," not cycle.

Never mind. 

[bhodges]

I have two Karajan Beethoven Ninths--1963 and 1977--and prefer the earlier one.  Like you, I seem to recall some sonic weirdness in the later recording, but mostly I just like his slate of soloists in the 1963 one.  (Can't help in verifying the four performances.  And although I have not heard the complete cycle from either period, comments from friends suggest the 1963 set is the one to get.)

--Bruce

[MishaK]

Anyway, I think I'm right in saying Karajan made four recordings of the work - one in the 50s, two in the 60s (?), and the 1977 one which I now have. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But which one do most of you think is best? And for a bonus question, which cycle of the symphonies by Karajan overshadows the others he recorded?

I think there is a fifth one from his 80s digital cycle. I don't know the 50s Philharmonia version, nor the 77 or 80s versions. The two 60s versions are the one from the DG 1963 cycle and a live performance from the opening of the new Philharmonie in Berlin recorded around the same time, but with an inferior set of singers and in the somewhat unkind (to recording engineers) acoustics of the Philharmonie. The latter was issued by the BPO as part of a 12 CD set celebrating the orchestra's 125th anniversary. As a performance, the 1963 DG version is clearly superior in every way, though the live version has more "grit" and shows better how the orchestra sounded under Karajan under live conditions without the intervention of recording engineers.

[Haffner]

Mark, you really need the HvK LvB 1962. I've never heard a better Eroica, and the rest (especially the penultimate 9th) are excellent as well. I'm actually shocked that you don't have this.

[Drasko]

There is a sixth one, 1947 Wiener Philharmoniker on EMI (Karajan Collection)

[Keemun]

I have Karajan's '63 9th which I like a lot.  However, I have not heard his others, so I cannot say it is my favorite. (Or can I?  )

[Bonehelm]

I have Karajan's '63 9th which I like a lot.  However, I have not heard his others, so I cannot say it is my favorite. (Or can I?  )

War time Furt 1942 March Berlin LvB 9th is considered the finest ever. Not just on record, ever played by human beings in the entire western civilization history.

[Keemun]

War time Furt 1942 March Berlin LvB 9th is considered the finest ever. Not just on record, ever played by human beings in the entire western civilization history.

But this thread is limited to Karajan's recordings of Beethoven's 9th.   

[dtwilbanks]

War time Furt 1942 March Berlin LvB 9th is considered the finest ever. Not just on record, ever played by human beings in the entire western civilization history.

According to whom?

[DavidW]

The fifties recording is the best imo.

[Haffner]

War time Furt 1942 March Berlin LvB 9th is considered the finest ever. Not just on record, ever played by human beings in the entire western civilization history.

That is a really good one. But it's Furt, of course!

[Haffner]

The fifties recording is the best imo.

Haven't heard that one. Better than the 60's or '70's Hvk or Furtwangler? I like the Gardiner sometimes as well.

Just don't get the Muti or Bernstein "peace-seeking" 9th.

[DavidW]

Haven't heard that one. Better than the 60's or '70's Hvk or Furtwangler? I like the Gardiner sometimes as well.

Just don't get the Muti or Bernstein "peace-seeking" 9th.

Not better than Furt I'm sure but I like it better than the later Karajan.

[Holden]

The problem with any HvK/BPO 9th is the 'wall of sound' effect that Fluffy managed to inculcate into the Berlin Phil. This just doesn't work with the LvB 9th which already has some quite congested choral passages and separating out the soloists is quite hard. To me, all the HvK 9ths I've heard from '63 onwards suffer from this problem and as I result I don't own a single one of them, nor do I wish to do so.

[Bogey]

Not better than Furt I'm sure but I like it better than the later Karajan.

Why so David?

[DavidW]

Why so David?

Maybe more intimate sound out of the orchestra.  Maybe it's the sonics in the BPO recordings, I'm not sure but somehow the Philharmonia escapes the wall of sound effect.

[Haffner]

Maybe more intimate sound out of the orchestra.  Maybe it's the sonics in the BPO recordings, I'm not sure but somehow the Philharmonia escapes the wall of sound effect.

I'll be checking that one out.

[Bogey]

Maybe more intimate sound out of the orchestra.  Maybe it's the sonics in the BPO recordings, I'm not sure but somehow the Philharmonia escapes the wall of sound effect.

I thought I had this one, but rather it is the '47 with the Philharmonia under HvK that drasko mentioned....however, it is on the Maestro History label.