Bohuslav Martinů (1890-1959)

[Mirror Image]

Yeah - that's fun, "spicy" music. I think there's only one recording of it (Neumann/CzPO).

Yes, that is correct. It is coupled with Symphonies 5 & 6.

[not edward]

"Parables" is a great work. I have only one recording of it with Belohlavek and the Czech Philharmonic.

I'd suggest you try to hear Ancerl. The sound isn't as good as Belohlavek has, but I think performance-wise it is greatly superior.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

There used to be a disc, which I was smart/lucky enough to buy, containing the Ancerl recordings of Parables, Frescoes, Memorial to Lidice, and the 5th Symphony. It was the Single Greatest Martinu Disc ever put together. Supraphon broke it in two for their Ancerl Gold edition.

[vandermolen]

There used to be a disc, which I was smart/lucky enough to buy, containing the Ancerl recordings of Parables, Frescoes, Memorial to Lidice, and the 5th Symphony. It was the Single Greatest Martinu Disc ever put together. Supraphon broke it in two for their Ancerl Gold edition.

Yes, those Ancerl discs are terrific.

[Luke]

There used to be a disc, which I was smart/lucky enough to buy, containing the Ancerl recordings of Parables, Frescoes, Memorial to Lidice, and the 5th Symphony. It was the Single Greatest Martinu Disc ever put together. Supraphon broke it in two for their Ancerl Gold edition.

Funny, that, I've been playing it just now. It is indeed a very special disc. Also been listening to Ancerl's 6th, and also to Arianne, which is linked to the third of the Parables. It's Martinu weather here, what can I say!

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

It's Martinu weather here, what can I say!

Well it's ******* hot and muggy here but I just listened to the Nonet and it cooled me off a little. Next up will be La Revue de Cuisine and maybe a couple of "madrigals" (all part of a Hyperion duo I've had for years).

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You know it's very surprising that Martinu isn't performed more in the concert halls. I would love to one his symphonies or concerti, especially the ones for piano, violin, cello, and oboe. I would love to hear Double Concerto for String Orchestra performed live. I bet the Czech Philharmonic program a good bit of Martinu, but other parts of the world don't. It's funny how this works, but here in the United States we don't get to hear enough American composers. What a shame.

I have been enjoying Vaclav Neumann's Martinu recordings lately. I'm about to listen to his disc of the violin concerti.

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I have avoided the Naxos recordings of the symphonies, and intend to continue doing so. I have good CzPO accounts of the last four--just need to find counterparts for the first two.

A wise decision. I haven't heard the Fagen recordings, but I don't think I need to. They have received unfavorable reviews by Martinu fans and considering I own what I consider to be the best of the best in Martinu's recorded output, I won't be picking these duds up.

[Mirror Image]

Martinu is a composer I know only by name, so I have this coming from Amazon:



I'm also getting this for comparison:

I have finally got around to buying the Neumann. I have to say I have only heard his performance of "Symphony No. 4" right now and have to say I'm very impressed with it. I think I understand better what Scarpia was telling me a few days ago in another thread about how Thomson exaggerates certain phrases. I think this Neumann cycle may very well end up being my favorite Martinu symphony recordings along with Jiri Belohlavek and Ancerl.

Martinu's music, as Scarpia mentioned to me, is more rhapsodic and Romantic gestures simply don't work with his music. I understand this more and more as I listen to Martinu and absorb his music. He's coming from more of a Neo-Classical angle with tight structure and rhythms, but as I have mentioned I believe his harmony is more impressionistic. Very ambiguous, which lends the music a very mysterious and airy quality.

Edit: I now heard the entire set of Martinu symphonies with Neumann/Czech Philharmonic. It blows away Thomson easily. Neumann is more in tune with Martinu's music and what it's trying to express.

[Sid]

There's a fair amount of Martinu's (& guys like Poulenc's) chamber pieces played here live in Sydney. The symphonies of Dvorak seem to get more of an airing than Martinu, but I can understand why. Dvorak's symphonies have been solidly in the repertoire for about 50 years, whereas Martinu has only been (re?)discovered in the past 20 years or so (outside Czech Republic).

Of his symphonies that I've heard so far, I really like the 2nd. It has a pastoral feel, is quite light and short. I espeicially like the scherzo, which has this lilting Czech theme, and suggestions of marching bands (a nod to Ives perhaps, or maybe just a suggestion of war?). I have the Berlin Symphony Orchestra conducted by Flor, coupled with the 1st, and out of print (I got it for only $2). I've also got the 4th, which is also ok (but still getting my head around it), and will probably get some more of them on Naxos, they're at the right price and I'm not really fussed about getting the "definitive" recording. I don't think anything is "definitive," it's all pretty subjective. I've got Fagen conducting Martinu's piano concertos on Naxos, and they sound pretty good to me (a musical illiterate, but expert listener if that's not a contradiction )...

[Mirror Image]

There's a fair amount of Martinu's (& guys like Poulenc's) chamber pieces played here live in Sydney. The symphonies of Dvorak seem to get more of an airing than Martinu, but I can understand why. Dvorak's symphonies have been solidly in the repertoire for about 50 years, whereas Martinu has only been (re?)discovered in the past 20 years or so (outside Czech Republic).

Of his symphonies that I've heard so far, I really like the 2nd. It has a pastoral feel, is quite light and short. I espeicially like the scherzo, which has this lilting Czech theme, and suggestions of marching bands (a nod to Ives perhaps, or maybe just a suggestion of war?). I have the Berlin Symphony Orchestra conducted by Flor, coupled with the 1st, and out of print (I got it for only $2). I've also got the 4th, which is also ok (but still getting my head around it), and will probably get some more of them on Naxos, they're at the right price and I'm not really fussed about getting the "definitive" recording. I don't think anything is "definitive," it's all pretty subjective. I've got Fagen conducting Martinu's piano concertos on Naxos, and they sound pretty good to me (a musical illiterate, but expert listener if that's not a contradiction )...

Martinu's Symphony No. 4 is an excellent work. It is, no doubt, one of those works that you will have to spend more time with, but I liked the first time I heard it. The symphony that always kind of bothered me was his Symphony No. 1. I'm still trying to understand this work better, but I'm much comfortable with it than I was a few years ago. All of this has to do with spending time with the music.

Those Fagen Naxos discs aren't that special. Nothing remotely passioinate about them. Fagen isn't a particularly inspired conductor anyway. As I said Neumann, Belohlavek, and Ancerl are my to-go-to Martinu conductors. I'm looking forward to hearing some Christopher Hogwood's recordings, that is, when the price is right.

[Sid]

Agreed, Martinu is a type of composer who I feel I have to absorb over a period of time (a bit like later American composers Morton Feldman or Elliot Carter, Martinu is highly preoccupied with shape & colour - look at the way he uses the piano in all of his symphonies). I think I read that Martinu taught Hovhaness. He seemed to absorb that "open" feeling inherent in much American music, and perhaps paved the way for later composers to build upon his ideas.

[Mirror Image]

Agreed, Martinu is a type of composer who I feel I have to absorb over a period of time (a bit like later American composers Morton Feldman or Elliot Carter, Martinu is highly preoccupied with shape & colour - look at the way he uses the piano in all of his symphonies). I think I read that Martinu taught Hovhaness. He seemed to absorb that "open" feeling inherent in much American music, and perhaps paved the way for later composers to build upon his ideas.

You wouldn't happen to be Andre from the TalkClassical forum would you? It's okay I won't tell anyone....hehehehe....

[Sid]

Yes, I must admit, I should've been open about that - but wanted to avoid it since not good memories from TC. I'd seen that you've changed from that, wanted to know whether you were open to more change? Anyway, hope we can get on here, as we had some arguments over there. I'm still on TC, been here for about 6 months on & off, but I've virtually stopped collecting & going to more concerts - hence my bias (it's not all or nothing, as I made out, I'm almost (?) as passionate about concerts as you are probably regarding collecting, but I do have other unrelated hobbies so maybe I'm not in that league. Music is a bit like rigorous, involved "therapy" for me, nothing more. I have cast my net wider since TC, I've got a wider range since then (but obviously music of the last 50 years of prime interest?). I'm more into piano, organ, choral, chamber, concertos, etc. etc.

[Mirror Image]

Yes, I must admit, I should've been open about that - but wanted to avoid it since not good memories from TC. I'd seen that you've changed from that, wanted to know whether you were open to more change? Anyway, hope we can get on here, as we had some arguments over there. I'm still on TC, been here for about 6 months on & off, but I've virtually stopped collecting & going to more concerts - hence my bias (it's not all or nothing, as I made out, I'm almost (?) as passionate about concerts as you are probably regarding collecting, but I do have other unrelated hobbies so maybe I'm not in that league. Music is a bit like rigorous, involved "therapy" for me, nothing more. I have cast my net wider since TC, I've got a wider range since then (but obviously music of the last 50 years of prime interest?). I'm more into piano, organ, choral, chamber, concertos, etc. etc.

I thought it was you. Just the way you type and the way you kept mentioning concerts in Sydney. It's alright. I've been to a few concerts here and there and it was a fun experience, but very expensive. I saw Petrenko conduct the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra many months ago and that was enjoyable, but I would just like to see more variety in concert programs, specifically more obscure works that hardly get performed.

Anyway, about those disagreements, it's all in good fun and I'm over that now. We're two mature adults with two very different minds. I hope to interact with you on a more positive level.

I'll probably never give up my collecting, because a great deal of my free time is listening to music. I have been making some cuts here and there, but my rapid pace of collecting is nothing like used to be. I just buy 15 recordings at a time now.  

[Sid]

Yes, music is an addiction, whether collecting, downloading, concert-going, etc. I'm trying to be a "minimalist" now. It's not only for reasons of finance, but also "head-space." I find that the more music I listen to in a short space of time, the harder it is for me to absorb it fully. I don't think it matters whether I'm listening to something by D. Scarlatti, F. Couperin or Crumb or Golijov - I want to give it time. That's the thing with works like Martinu's 4th symphony - it sounds "easy" compared to something (say) by Carter, but I wouldn't bet my money on that being the fact. The only work of his that I understood straight away was Sinfonietta La Jolla. Surely that repetitive, ostinato slow movement must have influenced Steve Reich? I think that Martinu must have made an impact on US composers, the same way I can hear elements of contemporary US composers in his music (Copland, Ives with their "big" open feel)?

[Mirror Image]

Yes, music is an addiction, whether collecting, downloading, concert-going, etc. I'm trying to be a "minimalist" now. It's not only for reasons of finance, but also "head-space." I find that the more music I listen to in a short space of time, the harder it is for me to absorb it fully. I don't think it matters whether I'm listening to something by D. Scarlatti, F. Couperin or Crumb or Golijov - I want to give it time. That's the thing with works like Martinu's 4th symphony - it sounds "easy" compared to something (say) by Carter, but I wouldn't bet my money on that being the fact. The only work of his that I understood straight away was Sinfonietta La Jolla. Surely that repetitive, ostinato slow movement must have influenced Steve Reich? I think that Martinu must have made an impact on US composers, the same way I can hear elements of contemporary US composers in his music (Copland, Ives with their "big" open feel)?

Some interesting comments, Sid. I just listened to Sinfonietta La Jolla for the first time today and it was quite enjoyable. I'm not sure if Reich had heard Martinu's music or not, but it makes one wonder considering Martinu was using a minimalistic type of technique during that movement. The thing about Martinu's music for me is it seems to always have this open, airy sound to it, which as I mentioned many posts above I contribute to those very enigmatic chord voicings he favors. His music is very well structured and the rhythms he uses are very Neo-Classical sounding, but it's those chord voicings that elevate his music to a higher plateau.

Reading more about Martinu's life he was somewhat of a nomad (I think of him the same way I think of Delius in this regard). He traveled alot during his life. Lived in Czechoslovakia, then in France, then Spain, then the US, then back to Europe to live in Switzerland. I mean all of those influences he absorbed along the way must have also impacted his music. He was deeply influenced by jazz, especially in his American years. He even wrote a jazz ballet suite that he regards as his favorite composition.

It's just interesting for me to hear a composer like Martinu, because his music never quite hits you right away, but then there comes a most ingenius musical passage and that's when the music hits you. I intend on exploring more of his music and the recordings I own.

[Luke]

Just skimming the above, bleary-eyed from sleep, and only wanted to say a couple of things, all re the 4th, really

1) I think the 4th is an immediately appealing work, possibly the simplest and most direct work Martinu composed. If you are finding it harder work than others of his pieces, I'd suggest a different recording. Of the 4th, Turnovsky's is THE classic recording - it's been responsible for mor Martinu Damascene conversions than any other disc, I'd imagine. Fagen is utterly horrible in the 4th, to a degree which makes me quite angry  The work he presents is a travesty of the glowing, joyful, radiant piece this really is.

2) OK, the slow movement isn't exactly joyful. But it still has that peculiar luminosity to it. And it also has more of those proto-minimalist textures you were talking about, especially in those unearthly final pages. (Actually, they are all over this symphony, but in the slow movement they are most exposed and spell-binding). I mention this only because it is something that seems to have grabbed your attention in the Sinfonietta La Jolla, so it might be the hook which helps with the 4th too.

[Sid]

I'll have to go back and listen to the 4th, I haven't heard it in a while. I've got Walter Weller's performance (I think the orchestra is from London?) on EMI. & yes, I do like the "mimimalistic" feel of Martinu's slow movements. He really pointed to new horizons in his music, although it is not always highly engaging as a whole at the first listen. I mean, the Double Concerto for piano, strings & timpani grabbed me more than his Sinfonia Concertante or Concerto for String Quartet. But as I said, I have to go back & give these works another listen (I've got them all on an EMI Gemini 2 disc set).

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I bet the Czech Philharmonic program a good bit of Martinu, but other parts of the world don't.

I lived in Prague for a couple of years, and my impression was that Martinu is the second most played Czech composer, after Dvorak, with Janacek and Smetana battling it out for the bronze medal.

1) I think the 4th is an immediately appealing work, possibly the simplest and most direct work Martinu composed. If you are finding it harder work than others of his pieces, I'd suggest a different recording. Of the 4th, Turnovsky's is THE classic recording

I'm a bit puzzled by this statement. I don't find the 4th simple at all - from an emotional (if not really a structural) standpoint, there seems to be many different layers to it, with each mvt. having its own distinctive emotional profile and atmosphere. I think by far the simplest symphony is the 2nd. As to recordings, while I haven't heard the famous Turnovsky, I find the most recent Belohlavek version (on Supraphon) close to ideal.

2) OK, the slow movement isn't exactly joyful. But it still has that peculiar luminosity to it. And it also has more of those proto-minimalist textures you were talking about,

Speaking of proto-minimalism, the most proto-minimal thing I've heard from Martinu is the first mvt. of Toccata e due canzone, which is a fascinating work in its wide-ranging nature. The first couple of minutes sound like something by Steve Reich.