Bohuslav Martinů (1890-1959)

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I wonder how this set compares to the Naxos recordings. Have you heard the Naxos ones too? Thanks.

I have five of the seven quartets from the Martinu Quartet on Naxos (missing the first and second). The philosophies in interpretation are as different as you can get. The Panochas aim for a more 'conversational' approach (hence my description above), playing up the color and nuance in the music while keeping everything wonderfully buoyant. They're keen on picking apart the music and ferreting out all the wonderful details and subtleties.

The Martinus buy comparison are more homogenized, with a warm, comfy blend that thankfully finds just enough intimacy to satisfy my needs and keeps my ears perked. It's a bit more romanticized I'd say with less emphasis on the quirkiness (and detail) yet still extremely entertaining to listen to. Hard to find fault with them yet honestly they're not my preferred. Color is key for me in Martinu and the Panochas tap into it in spades.   

[Mirror Image]

I have five of the seven quartets from the Martinu Quartet on Naxos (missing the first and second). The philosophies in interpretation are as different as you can get. The Panochas aim for a more 'conversational' approach (hence my description above), playing up the color and nuance in the music while keeping everything wonderfully buoyant. They're keen on picking apart the music and ferreting out all the wonderful details and subtleties.

The Martinus buy comparison are more homogenized, with a warm, comfy blend that thankfully finds just enough intimacy to satisfy my needs and keeps my ears perked. It's a bit more romanticized I'd say with less emphasis on the quirkiness (and detail) yet still extremely entertaining to listen to. Hard to find fault with them yet honestly they're not my preferred. Color is key for me in Martinu and the Panochas tap into it in spades.

Thanks for the wonderful description. I think I shall be getting the Panochas set on Supraphon next.

[karlhenning]

Thanks! I've got the same two vols. of the Naxos set coming in . . . and my wallet does not thank you, for it seems that I shall want the Panochas, as well : )

[Mirror Image]

Just bought:

[SonicMan46]

.............Hard to find fault with them yet honestly they're not my preferred. Color is key for me in Martinu and the Panochas tap into it in spades.

DD - thanks for your marvelous description of the Panocha SQ in these works - I have the same group in the Dvorak SQs, so would expect a unique approach to these works - although I do own about a dozen Martinu discs, don't have any of the SQs - thus, will add to my 'to buy' list!   

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Thanks, guys. I hope the Panochas prove worthwhile for you all (and I see Sarge, too, from the Purchases Today thread).

[Mirror Image]

Thanks, guys. I hope the Panochas prove worthwhile for you all (and I see Sarge, too, from the Purchases Today thread).

I listened to the playback of this Panochas Quartet set and it sounded much better to my ears than the Martinu Quartet. It sounded like the Panochas Quartet have a better understanding of Martinu's style. Am I wrong in what I heard?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I listened to the playback of this Panochas Quartet set and it sounded much better to my ears than the Martinu Quartet. It sounded like the Panochas Quartet have a better understanding of Martinu's style. Am I wrong in what I heard?

That's an interesting question to ponder and I'm not sure if I have an exact answer but in my experience taking Martinu at face value and not trying to "streamline" his music for broader public appeal is the fastest way to make the most of the music.

And this to me sounds exactly like what the Panochas are doing. I suppose it's possible to label this sort of approach as having a "better understanding" of the music, in-as-much as it's a fearless undertaking of the music without the slightest hint of compromise, but I have to admit I have no formal musical training so can only base my assumptions on what I've heard on disc.

However, it could simply be that the Panocha's are approaching the music from a more intimate vantage point, perhaps living with the music for a longer period of time (partly due perhaps to the fact they've been together for a longer period compared to the Martinu Qt) which I suppose is in fact just another way of saying "better understanding of the music". But when I listen to the Martinu Qt I don't think I'm willing to say anything along the lines of they have a LESSER understanding of the music. It could just be that they're tackling the music from a totally different vantage point so as not to appear mere clones of the Panochas, or any other band playing this music. IOW, they have no problems finding their own individual voice in the music but as I've said it's not exactly how I most like to HEAR Martinu.

And, hey, they're a Czech band so it's not like I can say a group of "outsiders" have somehow violated the music or anything. So I'm willing and able to concede that the Martinu Qt have enough of the music in their bones to - for the most part - understand the music though perhaps there's still that side of them that's not willing to fully exploit Martinu's vast canvas for the sake of making the music more appealing to a more mainstream public (alluding to my opening comment). Which might explain why I hear their approach as "a bit romanticized", as I mentioned a couple posts ago.

Anyway, nothing I've said here is based on anything empirical - aside from what my ears tell me - but since you asked...

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I listened to the playback of this Panochas Quartet set and it sounded much better to my ears than the Martinu Quartet. It sounded like the Panochas Quartet have a better understanding of Martinu's style. Am I wrong in what I heard?

DD has left a typically articulate and comprehensive answer, but I'll add a few points. I think for us as listeners, deciding who has a "better understanding of Martinu's style" between two Czech ensembles that have been playing him for years is kind of a pointless quest. It makes more sense to just go with what your ears tell you.

Most of Martinu's output is still stuck in a "Czech ghetto," i.e. with a number of exceptions it hardly gets played or recorded outside former Czechoslovakia. I am hoping this will change and indeed there are signs of it, with conductors like Hogwood and Gilbert taking up the stick on Bohuslav's behalf. (Could Hogwood do for Martinu what Mackerras did for Janacek? The thought is appealing.) But at the moment, we're mostly comparing recordings by Czech musicians, and in view of this it's hard to say who has better "understanding" or "authenticity" in this music. It's like trying to decide whether Staropramen or Krusovice makes more authentically Bohemian dark beer: a matter of individual taste.

BTW, "internationalizing" Martinu would just be a form of restoration: almost all of his career was spent outside Cz., and in the 1940s-50s he was one of the most-played living composers in the USA, with conductors like Koussevitzky, Munch, and Ormandy backing him.

[Luke]

(just rambling....)

He is indeed an odd figure in that respect - so strongly Czech, and yet such a cosmpolitan, cultivated figure. Much of his output, especially his later output, seems to me so full of the sun, of the south - Greece, France, the Mediterranean (of course he lived there, in Nice, for a long time); at points in the first 5 symphonies, if you listen with your ears tuned this way, we can hear an open, American sound akin to some Copland etc (and of course that's where they were composed); in the earlier works of the 20s and 30s, his Paris years, we hear all the sophistication, wit and ability to parody and to flit between styles of a Poulenc. And yet, always, there is this Czech core there, that comes to the fore in works like the Nonet and the Bures cantatas, Spalicek etc. etc. but is always present. Though I agree that at present the best Martinu recordings have almost all been made by Czech artists (just as it's still true that, Mackerras apart, the best Janacek recordings come from Czech artists too), he would nevertheless appear to be a prime candidate for international export in some ways, open to all as he is...but perhaps too many people like their musical imports to be more easily pinned down, geographically. Hmm...

[Mirror Image]

That's an interesting question to ponder and I'm not sure if I have an exact answer but in my experience taking Martinu at face value and not trying to "streamline" his music for broader public appeal is the fastest way to make the most of the music.

And this to me sounds exactly like what the Panochas are doing. I suppose it's possible to label this sort of approach as having a "better understanding" of the music, in-as-much as it's a fearless undertaking of the music without the slightest hint of compromise, but I have to admit I have no formal musical training so can only base my assumptions on what I've heard on disc.

However, it could simply be that the Panocha's are approaching the music from a more intimate vantage point, perhaps living with the music for a longer period of time (partly due perhaps to the fact they've been together for a longer period compared to the Martinu Qt) which I suppose is in fact just another way of saying "better understanding of the music". But when I listen to the Martinu Qt I don't think I'm willing to say anything along the lines of they have a LESSER understanding of the music. It could just be that they're tackling the music from a totally different vantage point so as not to appear mere clones of the Panochas, or any other band playing this music. IOW, they have no problems finding their own individual voice in the music but as I've said it's not exactly how I most like to HEAR Martinu.

And, hey, they're a Czech band so it's not like I can say a group of "outsiders" have somehow violated the music or anything. So I'm willing and able to concede that the Martinu Qt have enough of the music in their bones to - for the most part - understand the music though perhaps there's still that side of them that's not willing to fully exploit Martinu's vast canvas for the sake of making the music more appealing to a more mainstream public (alluding to my opening comment). Which might explain why I hear their approach as "a bit romanticized", as I mentioned a couple posts ago.

Anyway, nothing I've said here is based on anything empirical - aside from what my ears tell me - but since you asked...

I appreciate your time in explaining to me your opinions of the two different quartets. Thanks a lot!

[Mirror Image]

DD has left a typically articulate and comprehensive answer, but I'll add a few points. I think for us as listeners, deciding who has a "better understanding of Martinu's style" between two Czech ensembles that have been playing him for years is kind of a pointless quest.

Well two different Czech ensembles can play very differently as DD so intelligently laid out for us. Being Czech has nothing to do with how well an ensemble plays the music. All I asked for was a personal opinion. Whether you regard this as pointless or not is not up to you to decide, I asked the question and you chose not to answer the question intelligently or cordially.

Anyway, DD's kind candor is much appreciated, especially to someone who is WANTING to learn more about Martinu.

[Luke]

FWIW I didn't read Velimir's post as at all lacking in intelligence of cordiality. Surprised to see that it offended you - I found it sensible and thought-provoking

[Mirror Image]

FWIW I didn't read Velimir's post as at all lacking in intelligence of cordiality. Surprised to see that it offended you - I found it sensible and thought-provoking

I wasn't offended but merely taken aback by the first paragraph. Other than that, I thought it was a solid post.

When somebody asks a question of someone else out of a willingness to learn, I expect those who know more than I do about the given subject to come forth with their knowledge. Velimir did not offer me anything other than telling me my question was "pointless." Perhaps to him it was, but to other's like DD, for example, one can notice differences between two Czech ensembles and all I was asking for was DD to tell me his opinion of both groups. My question was never intended to be answered by Velimir.

[Mirror Image]

Anyway, getting back to Martinu...

I think I have more than enough Martinu recordings to keep me busy for awhile.

[Luke]

I wasn't offended but merely taken aback by the first paragraph. Other than that, I thought it was a solid post.

When somebody asks a question of someone else out of a willingness to learn, I expect those who know more than I do about the given subject to come forth with their knowledge. Velimir did not offer me anything other than telling me my question was "pointless." Perhaps to him it was, but to other's like DD, for example, one can notice differences between two Czech ensembles and all I was asking for was DD to tell me his opinion of both groups. My question was never intended to be answered by Velimir.

Hmm, yes, but the way I read it, that 'pointless' wasn't insulting you as the questioner, just a statement of the fact that he thought that answering the question would in the long run be fruitless, for other reasons. Just saying - don't like friction! 

[Luke]

Sorry - crossed posts! Me too - if only because I'm having trouble culling them down to a managable number to take on holiday!

[karlhenning]

I am enjoying all of this disc of the chamber music two-fer, Luke (Nonet, Trio in F, fl/vc/pf, Sonatina for 2 vns & pf, La revue de cuisine).

Possibly my favorite on an initial hearing is the Sonatina! But it's all good, and I'll come back to this many a time.

[Mirror Image]

Hmm, yes, but the way I read it, that 'pointless' wasn't insulting you as the questioner, just a statement of the fact that he thought that answering the question would in the long run be fruitless, for other reasons. Just saying - don't like friction! 

I don't like friction either. I'm not too worried about any of this. I was just making a point of observation, which was I didn't ask for his opinion, I asked for DD since it was he who recommended the Panochas Quartet set to me over the Martinu Quartet recordings on Naxos.

[Mirror Image]

I am enjoying all of this disc of the chamber music two-fer, Luke (Nonet, Trio in F, fl/vc/pf, Sonatina for 2 vns & pf, La revue de cuisine).

Possibly my favorite on an initial hearing is the Sonatina! But it's all good, and I'll come back to this many a time.

I've heard nothing but good things about this set. I'll probably end up picking it up at some point. But right now, I've got to get back to listening....