Bach Cello Suites

Started by Que, September 14, 2007, 07:39:03 AM

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aukhawk

I had a listen last night, and I agree that Prelude is very fine, I get a sense of ambiguity in this version due to any bar lines being almost totally erased.  Though in my case the 4th Prelude has always been my favourite among the major-key preludes.

Actually when 'sampling' an unfamiliar version of the Cello Suites I usually dip in to the Courante from Suite 4 first - listening for the bowing on the twiddly bits - old-skule performers usually take this legato, while more recent HIP performers take it staccato, with a rapid chipping action of the bow.  Interestingly, Bylsma in his earlier version (which I generally much prefer) is legato but in the later recording he adopts the chipping approach, though I wouldn't call the way he plays it exactly staccato, not by the standards of such as Angela East anyway.

bioluminescentsquid

How do people think about Leonhardt's transcription of the 4th prelude for the harpsichord? Of course, the writing Bach uses in the prelude sounds rather keyboardistic, but the transcription for the harpsichord seems to lack something(?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEyywMaHWek

Spineur

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on February 23, 2017, 01:03:42 AM
How do people think about Leonhardt's transcription of the 4th prelude for the harpsichord? Of course, the writing Bach uses in the prelude sounds rather keyboardistic, but the transcription for the harpsichord seems to lack something(?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEyywMaHWek
The fourth prelude is my favorite with its large intervals. With the second hand accompagnement, you lose these large harmonic jumps.  People can make all the transcription they want, it doesnt bother me, but I dont care for this one.
This prelude can be played using a slow or a fast tempo, with different effects.  Both ways actually work.

San Antone



Bach : The Six Cello Suites
Viola de Hoog
Vivat

In the video (see below) she made about the recording, Viola de Hoog talks about being inspired to make the recording by the instrument that the plays, on this disc she uses a Guadagnini cello of around 1750 for suites 1 to 5, but she uses a five string cello built in Bohemia in 1730 for the sixth suite. Unusually the Bohemian five-string cello is bigger than the four-string Guadagnini whereas they are usually smaller.  Her bows are both modern copies of baroque bows and she uses gut strings (the lower two silver wound). The extra string (a high E string) means that polyphonic writing is easier, as does the scordatura in the fifth suite (the A string is tuned down a tone to G).

https://www.youtube.com/v/tN8-8YAHtws

aligreto

Quote from: San Antone on December 27, 2017, 03:48:21 AM


Bach : The Six Cello Suites
Viola de Hoog
Vivat

In the video (see below) she made about the recording, Viola de Hoog talks about being inspired to make the recording by the instrument that the plays, on this disc she uses a Guadagnini cello of around 1750 for suites 1 to 5, but she uses a five string cello built in Bohemia in 1730 for the sixth suite. Unusually the Bohemian five-string cello is bigger than the four-string Guadagnini whereas they are usually smaller.  Her bows are both modern copies of baroque bows and she uses gut strings (the lower two silver wound). The extra string (a high E string) means that polyphonic writing is easier, as does the scordatura in the fifth suite (the A string is tuned down a tone to G).

https://www.youtube.com/v/tN8-8YAHtws

Thank you for posting that. I really like the rich tone and resonance of the instrument which seems to have been captured on the recording.

bioluminescentsquid

Quote from: aligreto on December 27, 2017, 04:58:47 AM
Thank you for posting that. I really like the rich tone and resonance of the instrument which seems to have been captured on the recording.

Sampled the 4th suite; at times, it felt a bit too hushed and reverent for me. The Guadagnini sounds quite interesting -- almost like a low viola. The delicate, a bit slurred way she articulates things reminds me of how Verlet plays on harpsichord.

Mandryka

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 27, 2017, 11:28:18 PM
Sampled the 4th suite; at times, it felt a bit too hushed and reverent for me. The Guadagnini sounds quite interesting -- almost like a low viola. The delicate, a bit slurred way she articulates things reminds me of how Verlet plays on harpsichord.

Yes in fact I liked the seriousness of it, the sobreity. I listened to 6, and 2.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

aligreto

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 27, 2017, 11:28:18 PM
Sampled the 4th suite; at times, it felt a bit too hushed and reverent for me. The Guadagnini sounds quite interesting -- almost like a low viola. The delicate, a bit slurred way she articulates things reminds me of how Verlet plays on harpsichord.

Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 12:09:05 AM
Yes in fact I liked the seriousness of it, the sobreity. I listened to 6, and 2.

Thank you both. I must investigate further so.

bioluminescentsquid

#488
Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 12:09:05 AM
Yes in fact I liked the seriousness of it, the sobreity. I listened to 6, and 2.

Serious, but in a meek and senile way for me. Not in the stern ascetic way like the Suzuki recording we both liked. But hopefully it opens up on more listens. I remember I called the Suzuki "watery" before I started liking it.
Suzuki is on YouTube https://youtu.be/MIuascezq5w

milk


"...she is nevertheless physically challenged by these works, to judge from the many instances of audible breathing on the discs."
- Gramaphone
"...Gaillard's breathing, while not annoying or always audible, can sound labored, as if she were working very hard..."
- Allmusic

So far I haven't found the problem but I'm not listening on headphones. Something strikes me as unfair about these comments, especially the one from gramaphone. I mean, maybe it's just the miking. If I DO notice this, it may put ME off though. Let's see. I don't know...I think anyone playing these will be working hard. No? Well, I'm not a cellist (but I play one on TV, Badumpum).

milk


Also planning to give this a bit of a listen tonight. I remember this working well...is this the only recording on gamba?

The One

#491
Quote from: milk on January 02, 2018, 04:36:09 AM
is this the only recording on gamba?

I'm not sure at the moment but I at least remember a #5 by Hille Perl

premont

Pandolfo made an earlier recording of the suite no. 5.

γνῶθι σεαυτόν

premont

Quote from: milk on January 02, 2018, 04:33:54 AM

"...she is nevertheless physically challenged by these works, to judge from the many instances of audible breathing on the discs."
- Gramaphone
"...Gaillard's breathing, while not annoying or always audible, can sound labored, as if she were working very hard..."
- Allmusic

So far I haven't found the problem but I'm not listening on headphones. Something strikes me as unfair about these comments, especially the one from gramaphone. I mean, maybe it's just the miking. If I DO notice this, it may put ME off though. Let's see. I don't know...I think anyone playing these will be working hard. No? Well, I'm not a cellist (but I play one on TV, Badumpum).

It is so normal to hear the breathing of cellists on recordings, that I almost do not notice it anymore, It is more interesting, if the playing sounds labored.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

milk

Quote from: (: premont :) on January 02, 2018, 05:50:36 AM
It is so normal to hear the breathing of cellists on recordings, that I almost do not notice it anymore, It is more interesting, if the playing sounds labored.
Something rubbed me the wrong way about two reviews picking at her for this. Honestly, I haven't looked at various reviews too much. Is this a normal complaint? I've no idea but seems like they went overboard in this criticism.

milk

Quote from: (: premont :) on January 02, 2018, 05:47:48 AM
Pandolfo made an earlier recording of the suite no. 5.
It sounds very natural on gamba. Was this piece played a lot in Bach's time or was it just forgotten until Casals? Is it possible #6 was intended for Gamba or da spalla? Would it have been obvious to Bach that these pieces could be played on the gamba? What's the advantage of specifying the cello?
Would Bach have imagined these pieces for lute? I've also been sampling Angela East tonight (on cello). Very different. But I think I will move to the lute as well.

The One

Quote from: milk on January 02, 2018, 06:02:46 AM
Something rubbed me the wrong way about two reviews picking at her for this. Honestly, I haven't looked at various reviews too much. Is this a normal complaint? I've no idea but seems like they went overboard in this criticism.

Don't worry, they are meant for me :). I wouldn't even try even the best interpretation with non-musical noise. That's why I couldn't finish even the 1.mv of the recent Brahms trio Ma/Ax.

Live recording noises included. Otherwise Richter would have been my most loved pianist. Some brains just can't phase it out or process it out. We are poor and pathetic weaklings

milk

Quote from: The One on January 02, 2018, 06:15:08 AM
Don't worry, they are meant for me :). I wouldn't even try even the best interpretation with non-musical noise. That's why I couldn't finish even the 1.mv of the recent Brahms trio Ma/Ax.

Live recording noises included. Otherwise Richter would have been my most loved pianist. Some brains just can't phase it out or process it out. We are poor and pathetic weaklings
I can understand it though. If I start to hear it, it may drive me crazy. I don't mind certain kinds of noises. There's some Riemer recordings of Bach on a homemade fortepiano. Highly praised around here. It makes a squeak. I can't take it. I don't appreciate Gould's humming either (well, even without the humming). Has the noise issue come up for you more on solo cello recordings?

The One

Quote from: milk on January 02, 2018, 06:21:26 AM
well, even without the humming
Hear, hear!

Quote from: milk on January 02, 2018, 06:21:26 AM
Has the noise issue come up for you more on solo cello recordings?
I'd say so. I believe there is a transcendental aspect of cello and I always listen to it more attentive than any other instrument, despite piano being my favorite. So I guess it's normal to say I'm more sensitive to it. I can phase out low-level humming such as Brendel's but no tolerance to breathing and coughs :)

Mandryka

Quote from: milk on January 02, 2018, 04:36:09 AM

Also planning to give this a bit of a listen tonight. I remember this working well...is this the only recording on gamba?

While you're at it, try Susanne Heinrich's recording of three violin pieces on a gamba.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen