Bach Cello Suites

[SonicMan46]

Something rubbed me the wrong way about two reviews picking at her for this. Honestly, I haven't looked at various reviews too much. Is this a normal complaint? I've no idea but seems like they went overboard in this criticism.

Hello Milk - I bought that Gaillard set back in 2012 - she recorded the cello suites first in 2000 (in her mid-20s), which I've not heard (but just checked and available on Spotify - will take a listen later today); the recording below was 10 years later - must say that the cover art was one attraction for me (an additional pic added below from her website). - 

I've just listened to Suite 1 on headphones & Suite 2 on speakers - the breathing is more evident on the phones, as expected, but really does not bother me (NOW, I do hate humming from pianists!) - probably close miking and seriously doubt she was laboring - believe the reviewers mentioned chose the wrong words - for those interested, I've attached the 2 reviews (and put in bold the point in question).  Also, there are 10 5* comments on Amazon USA w/ an excellent review by Gio, who I respect; and also some 'comparisons' between her two recordings of these works - some prefer the first one, so this morning I'll listen to the 2010 version and the earlier one on Spotify on my iPad w/ a BT soundbar - Dave


 

[The One]

...seriously doubt she was laboring

Definitely not laboring. I tried 1st Sarabande and it was impossible for me to listen to more than a minute   

[Baron Scarpia]

Definitely not laboring. I tried 1st Sarabande and it was impossible for me to listen to more than a minute   

If I had a time machine I'd send some Benadryl to Pierre Fournier for the DG sessions.

[prémont]

If I had a time machine I'd send some Benadryl to Pierre Fournier for the DG sessions.

Why antihistamine? Better with Adrenaline.

[prémont]

Something rubbed me the wrong way about two reviews picking at her for this. Honestly, I haven't looked at various reviews too much. Is this a normal complaint? I've no idea but seems like they went overboard in this criticism.

Yes, they went overboard, because this is not a normal complaint.

[prémont]

It sounds very natural on gamba. Was this piece played a lot in Bach's time or was it just forgotten until Casals? Is it possible #6 was intended for Gamba or da spalla? Would it have been obvious to Bach that these pieces could be played on the gamba? What's the advantage of specifying the cello?
Would Bach have imagined these pieces for lute? I've also been sampling Angela East tonight (on cello). Very different. But I think I will move to the lute as well.

Yes, I think the fifth works very well on gamba - probably because of its French design. As you know there is - from Bach's hand - an arrangement for lute (or lute harpsichord) of precisely this suite recorded by Christiane Jaccottet. The sixth suite was intended for a five stringed cello, possibly da spalla not long time ago called viola pomposa as in this recording with the great German violist Ulrich Koch (1921 - 1996):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7KltjdkBlc

But be ware of the recordings of the suites on violoncello da spalla by Ryo Terakado, Dmitri Badiarov and Sigiswald Kuijken :

[milk]

Yes, I think the fifth works very well on gamba - probably because of its French design. As you know there is - from Bach's hand - an arrangement for lute (or lute harpsichord) of precisely this suite recorded by Christiane Jaccottet. The sixth suite was intended for a five stringed cello, possibly da spalla not long time ago called viola pomposa as in this recording with the great German violist Ulrich Koch (1921 - 1996):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7KltjdkBlc

But be ware of the recordings of the suites on violoncello da spalla by Ryo Terakado, Dmitri Badiarov and Sigiswald Kuijken :

I have Kuijken. That's a good one. I forgot Bach himself made an arrangement.

[André]

What about Bruno Cocset ? I like his work with other composers' music (Barrière, for example), but have not heard him in Bach. Any comments ?

[bioluminescentsquid]

What about Bruno Cocset ? I like his work with other composers' music (Barrière, for example), but have not heard him in Bach. Any comments ?

I found it mild mannered but beautiful. There's a good sense of rhetoric in his playing, in that there's a very speech-like aspect. Sometimes his articulations seem very Gamba like. I'd like to hear opinions too, especially from those more familiar with it.

By the way, for those looking for more cello suites on viol, check out Fahmi Alqhai's The Bach Album.

[amw]

Imo music is played by human beings and created by the human body. If you don't want to hear any indication that a human being is involved in producing the sound, you might as well listen to a computer?

[Mandryka]

By the way, for those looking for more cello suites on viol, check out Fahmi Alqhai's The Bach Album.

I meant to mention him to you last week when you made some comment about Forqueray, just to say that you may enjoy his Forqueray and Marais CD, this thing

[The One]

Imo music is played by human beings and created by the human body. If you don't want to hear any indication that a human being is involved in producing the sound, you might as well listen to a computer?

Where does this "bodily sounds" end? Are all the sounds by a human being acceptable? I have many recordings without breathing or humming so it is possible to perform without them. Music on recording is music, not the environmental noises.

[amw]

It's obviously possible to record music in such a way that breathing is inaudible, but breath in itself (and humming, for those who do it) is part of the physical processes that make up a performance, along with eg foot stamping, incidental instrumental sounds (resonance, key clicks, fingerboard noises, pedal being depressed/lifted etc), and all the other weird shit musicians do unconsciously whilst exerting the effort to perform a piece. It's not "environmental noises". That would be things like audience coughs and unwrapping sweets or someone using a pneumatic drill in the background or a car alarm going off or an air conditioner, etc, which I agree is extraneous and if I wanted to hear it I'd go to a concert.

That said I wasn't impressed with the Gaillard Aparté recording but for reasons unrelated to breathing—will probably have to revisit it to remember why.

[The One]

It's obviously possible to record music in such a way that breathing is inaudible, but breath in itself (and humming, for those who do it) is part of the physical processes that make up a performance, along with eg foot stamping, incidental instrumental sounds (resonance, key clicks, fingerboard noises, pedal being depressed/lifted etc), and all the other weird shit musicians do unconsciously whilst exerting the effort to perform a piece. It's not "environmental noises". That would be things like audience coughs and unwrapping sweets or someone using a pneumatic drill in the background or a car alarm going off or an air conditioner, etc, which I agree is extraneous and if I wanted to hear it I'd go to a concert.

That said I wasn't impressed with the Gaillard Aparté recording but for reasons unrelated to breathing—will probably have to revisit it to remember why.

OK

[Judith]

Love these performed by Steven Isserlis.  They have a deep rich textured sound which is typical of Steven

[prémont]

I found it [Cocset] mild mannered but beautiful. There's a good sense of rhetoric in his playing, in that there's a very speech-like aspect. Sometimes his articulations seem very Gamba like. I'd like to hear opinions too, especially from those more familiar with it.

Ten years ago I wrote this about it (post 12 in this thread):

This is a remarkable and very individual interpretation. It is indeed dancing, with generally fast tempi and rhytmic energy even in the Sarabande´s, and Cocset plays with astonishing elegance and virtuosity. Miking is close, you can hear the noise from the left hand clearly, but this is not annoying at all, on the contrary it adds to the feeling of presence. The sound is dark and soft - almost seducing, and sometimes the instrument sounds more like a bass viola da gamba than like a a violoncello. Recommended without reservation.

[The One]

I wrote this about it

How do you find the latest hypes, Watkin, Demenga?

[prémont]

How do you find the latest hypes, Watkin, Demenga?

I have no specific measures.

Concerning Watkin and the latest Demenga I own both, Watkin is IMO self-indulgent and irritating. Demenga I have not listened to yet.

[king ubu]

"...she is nevertheless physically challenged by these works, to judge from the many instances of audible breathing on the discs."
- Gramaphone
"...Gaillard's breathing, while not annoying or always audible, can sound labored, as if she were working very hard..."
- Allmusic

Not 100% sure about the Allmusic remark, but the Gramophone one has to be labeled mysoginist, right? No way such a statement would ever be made about a recording by a man.

I like that recording quite some, actually. As I don't stream, I've not heard her first.

The Demenga is quite good, too, I think - he stresses the dancing aspects and qualities of the music, and explains his idea of the pieces and concept of execution extensively in the liner notes.

[The One]

...has to be labeled misogynist, right? No way such a statement would ever be made about a recording by a man.

As far as I know, you are in the wrong board then 

The Demenga is quite good, too, I think -

It is on my today's playlist, at least two suites