Bach Cello Suites

[Mandryka]

Not as far as I know.

It's quite surprising because there's a published transcription.

[vmartell]

Not that I'm in a rush to get it, but does anyone have Starker on CD?

I have

http://www.speakerscornerrecords.com/products/details/39016/bach-6-solo-cello-suites

and I think you cannot do better  - however this is coming out - seriously thinking it, but Analogue Productions guarantees quality, this might become the go to pressing...

https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/140354/Janos_Starker-Bach_Suites_For_Unaccompanied_Cello_Complete-Vinyl_Box_Sets


v

[vmartell]

I have

http://www.speakerscornerrecords.com/products/details/39016/bach-6-solo-cello-suites

and I think you cannot do better  - however this is coming out - seriously thinking it, but Analogue Productions guarantees quality, this might become the go to pressing...

https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/140354/Janos_Starker-Bach_Suites_For_Unaccompanied_Cello_Complete-Vinyl_Box_Sets


v

Ha! Did not realize I was replying to a post from 2007 ! -  topical though, because that Analogue Productions Starker set has not yet come out - anyone  has plans to get it?

v

[vmartell]

BTW  -  Currently waiting for this:

https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68261/2

The price was right over at Berkshire, so pulled the trigger!  - Anyone already have it? What is to be expected?

v

[prémont]

BTW  -  Currently waiting for this:

https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68261/2

So am I.

[Mandryka]

Gerhardt says this

Even harder than these issues of cello technique is the so-called 'interpretation'. Even a cursory glance at the four different manuscript sources of the suites makes clear that there are seemingly no rules—Anna Magdalena Bach's copy of the prelude of the first suite suggests four different bowings in the first four bars alone. Dynamic indications are either missing or contradict each other between the sources.


What to make of all this? I figured that back then every player had the skills of an improviser and probably freely added articulation, phrasing and dynamics in the prevailing taste as they went along, and this became my ultimate goal when performing the suites: trying to be as spontaneous and free with these musical ingredients as possible, never becoming calculated or stale. Since I am no great improviser I gave up on extemporizing ornaments, especially after reading (very happily) one source stating that in the cello suites ornaments were not intended by Bach.

I wonder what he's referring to there by the bit I put in bold.

[prémont]

Gerhardt says this

I wonder what he's referring to there by the bit I put in bold.

Or rather WHOM he is referring to.

[San Antone]

I originally posted this in the "other" Bach cello suites thread (which is only one page long):

Bruno Cocset :  Very nice - quick tempi and very good sounding instrument and recorded acoustic, IMO (although Classics Today reviewer graded the recorded sound down with a "6"). I disagree with him, and do not mind the extraneous sounds, e.g finger slaps and the occasional breathing/gasps.

[Mandryka]

I originally posted this in the "other" Bach cello suites thread (which is only one page long):

Ah yes I remember liking it very much.  There are so many of these things and like at least half are interesting to hear.

Having said that, I've not yet seen what the fuss is about with Gerhardt , I'll give it more time later.

[prémont]

Alban Gerhardt plays Bach's cello suites (label Hyperion).

This recording was announced long before its release, setting expectations high - too high IMO.

Gerhardt plays a Matteo Gofriller four stringed cello from 1710. It hardly sounds baroque and has probably been rebuilt and is surely equipped with a modern set up (steel strings, modern bow). He uses the same instrument for all the suites, which means that he plays the high tessitura parts of the sixth suite with "advanced thumb technique", so we do not miss the resulting "singing dog" effect here.

It's only the modern recording technique, which tells me, that this is a new recording. Spiritually Gerhardt is firmly based in the 1950es with all the implications of continual vibrato, old-fashioned end rubato, casual use of dynamic variation. modest ornamentation and repeats which are uninventive exact copies. Particularly unsuccessful is the sarabande of the fifth suite, which is spoilt by too much vibrato giving it a note of sentimentality.

If one likes this style, the recording may be serviceable.

[Herman]

"...she is nevertheless physically challenged by these works, to judge from the many instances of audible breathing on the discs."
- Gramaphone
"...Gaillard's breathing, while not annoying or always audible, can sound labored, as if she were working very hard..."
- Allmusic

So far I haven't found the problem but I'm not listening on headphones. Something strikes me as unfair about these comments, especially the one from gramaphone. I mean, maybe it's just the miking. If I DO notice this, it may put ME off though. Let's see. I don't know...I think anyone playing these will be working hard. No? Well, I'm not a cellist (but I play one on TV, Badumpum).

Of course this is from the same people that like Glenn Gould for his singing.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

"...she is nevertheless physically challenged by these works, to judge from the many instances of audible breathing on the discs."
- Gramaphone
"...Gaillard's breathing, while not annoying or always audible, can sound labored, as if she were working very hard..."
- Allmusic

So far I haven't found the problem but I'm not listening on headphones. Something strikes me as unfair about these comments, especially the one from gramaphone. I mean, maybe it's just the miking. If I DO notice this, it may put ME off though. Let's see. I don't know...I think anyone playing these will be working hard. No? Well, I'm not a cellist (but I play one on TV, Badumpum).

Indeed. If I had a time machine I'd send a Benadryl to Pierre Fournier.

[San Antone]

It bothers me when a reviewer cites audible breathing, gasps, and other sounds the performer makes.  If they wish to complain about too close miking, just say so. But hearing the performer breathe is a non-issue for me.  It brings the recording to life, IMO, and presents it as more live.

[prémont]

It bothers me when a reviewer cites audible breathing, gasps, and other sounds the performer makes.  If they wish to complain about too close miking, just say so. But hearing the performer breathe is a non-issue for me.  It brings the recording to life, IMO, and presents it as more live.

What you said!

[André]

No heavy breathing from this cellist:

[aligreto]

No heavy breathing from this cellist:

Heavily filtered though!

[vmartell]

Alban Gerhardt plays Bach's cello suites (label Hyperion).

This recording was announced long before its release, setting expectations high - too high IMO.

It's only the modern recording technique, which tells me, that this is a new recording. Spiritually Gerhardt is firmly based in the 1950es with all the implications of continual vibrato, old-fashioned end rubato, casual use of dynamic variation. modest ornamentation and repeats which are uninventive exact copies. Particularly unsuccessful is the sarabande of the fifth suite, which is spoilt by too much vibrato giving it a note of sentimentality.

- there yo go!


Just got this recording  as posted above, was waiting for it and finally got it and found the time to listen to it - well - Premont's  comments  are accurate  - except  the part where they are negatives!   - I don't believe they invalidate the interpretation at all - I am not anti-HIP practices - I am firmly against the idea that they invalidate the (ironically - a HIP approach seems to be considered more modern! ) "traditional" approach. Gerhardt is informed by Starker and Fournier while definitely adding a certain strength to the interpretation. 

If one likes this style, the recording may be serviceable.

This is an interesting idea - one can see it as "well, to each its own", which is certainly reasonable. Or one can see it as dismissive of the traditional style.. Which would be a mistake - not only Gerhardt's is a worthwhile recording showing the strengths of the traditional style, I think Starker and Fournier have to be kept firmly at the top of the Cello Suites pantheon, no matter the style.


My $0.02 anyway - as always YMMV and I could be 100% wrong


v

[Florestan]

It bothers me when a reviewer cites audible breathing, gasps, and other sounds the performer makes.  If they wish to complain about too close miking, just say so. But hearing the performer breathe is a non-issue for me.  It brings the recording to life, IMO, and presents it as more live.

Agreed 100%.

That's absurd indeed. Would they not go to any live concert for fear they heard their neighbours breathing?

EDIT:

"...she is nevertheless physically challenged by these works, to judge from the many instances of audible breathing on the discs."
- Gramaphone
"...Gaillard's breathing, while not annoying or always audible, can sound labored, as if she were working very hard..."
- Allmusic

Now, this is absolutely crazy. Of course every performer is physically challenged by every work s/he performs, especially so when the works are masterpieces --- and every performer works very hard in order to do his / her best. What would these gentlemen want? A performer that breathes not and works hard not? Let them have midi files then.

No, really, up their asses their snobbery, if I might be excused my French.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

I don't see what's wrong with a reviewer mentioning that breathing is audible. If you can hear the performer breathing it is a sign that the microphone technique has disproportionately emphasized it. People are free to decide for themselves if that is an issue.

I agree that the reviewer's condescending mention of "labored breathing" on that Gaillard release is idiotic.

[Florestan]

I don't see what's wrong with a reviewer mentioning it. If you can hear the performer breathing it is a sign that the microphone technique has disproportionately emphasized it.

It's a sign that the reviewer is focused more on the microphone technique than on the performer's artistic vision and s/he can't see the forest because of the trees, as I said in another thread (the obsession for the perfect performance in the perfect sound).