Bach Cello Suites

Started by Que, September 14, 2007, 07:39:03 AM

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Scarpia

Quote from: premont on October 09, 2010, 03:27:44 PM
He certainly did, but his "point" was besides my point and irrelevant for that matter..

And may I remind you of the fact, that English isn´t my first tongue.

Yes, I am deadly serious.

My point certainly is not irrelevant.  The point is that a statement that a performance is "human" says nothing to me, other than you like it better.  If it is expressive, exciting, graceful, elegant, sensitive, fast, soft, loud, then I have some idea what the performance is like.  That Grendon is more "human" than Fournier, what could that possibly mean? 

premont

Quote from: Scarpia on October 09, 2010, 04:57:04 PM
My point certainly is not irrelevant.  The point is that a statement that a performance is "human" says nothing to me, other than you like it better.  If it is expressive, exciting, graceful, elegant, sensitive, fast, soft, loud, then I have some idea what the performance is like.  That Grendon is more "human" than Fournier, what could that possibly mean?

Normally "more human" means in my vocabulary more expressive and spontaneous, as opposed to more formally "perfect" playing.
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Scarpia

Quote from: premont on October 09, 2010, 05:04:01 PM
Normally "more human" means in my vocabulary more expressive and spontaneous, as opposed to more formally "perfect" playing.

Now expressive and spontaneous I understand.  If I had to put a word to Fournier it would not be perfect, it would be noble, which is no less a human attribute than expressiveness. 

premont

Quote from: Scarpia on October 09, 2010, 06:05:25 PM
If I had to put a word to Fournier it would not be perfect, it would be noble, which is no less a human attribute than expressiveness.

Well, I wrote "regal" above - read "superhuman" if you want.
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jlaurson

Quote from: premont on October 09, 2010, 05:04:01 PM
Normally "more human" means in my vocabulary more expressive and spontaneous, as opposed to more formally "perfect" playing.

"English isn't my first language" really doesn't pull much weight around here, I'm afraid.  ;)

"expressive and spontaneous" *is* a better description (whether it's more appropriate is a different matter; Grendon's recording being among the few I don't actually have.

'Formally perfect', however, is far from what I'd call Fournier. That might suggest 'coldness', and Fournier's acount maybe many things (I suggest, akin to Scarpia's 'nobility', the word 'patrician'. 'Regal' does get there, too... but 'superhuman'??? There's tons of poise, but also real warmth to his playing.

Maciek

Don't worry, premont, I for one had no problem understanding what you meant the first time round.

springrite

Ordered the Queyras which should arrive in early November. Can't wait! I haven't had a new one for well over a decade. I do love the ones I have -- Fournier (2 versions), Starker and Ma. Wait, I gave the Ma away a few years ago. I assume Queyras is a more than adequate replacement or even an upgrade?
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

karlhenning

I cannot imagine regrets for having given Ma away ; )

springrite

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 14, 2010, 05:19:34 AM
I cannot imagine regrets for having given Ma away ; )

If someone who know nothing about classical music read this, I wonder what the reaction would be.
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

jlaurson

Quote from: springrite on October 14, 2010, 05:06:17 AM
Ordered the Queyras which should arrive in early November. Can't wait! I haven't had a new one for well over a decade. I do love the ones I have -- Fournier (2 versions), Starker and Ma. Wait, I gave the Ma away a few years ago. I assume Queyras is a more than adequate replacement or even an upgrade?

Queyras is the Fournier-recording for the 21st century. Terrrrrrrrrrrrrrific!
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=260

(and http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/05/bach-cello-suites.html)

Que

#230
Quote from: Pére Malfait on November 19, 2010, 07:57:42 AM
Recently received, first listen:



This is a stunning recording. The sound of the violoncello da spalla is rich and intense, and Badiarov's playing is technically assured and intensely musical.  Most highly recommended!

And will seriously consider this, don't have a version on violincello da spalla yet. I belive there are now three choices: Kuijken, Badiarov and Terakado?

Q

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Que on November 19, 2010, 11:37:30 PM
And will seriously consider this, don't have a version on violincello da spalla yet. I belive there are now three choices: Kuijken, Badiarov and Terakado?

I totally agree with Pére Malfait (here and about Kuijken's Brandenburgs): Badiarov's set is a must-have.

The only problem: Kuijken's and Terakado's, too.  ;D

Seriously, all those recordings are fantastically performed (quite different approaches, anyway), which is also probably an argument in favor of the cello da spalla.

For some reason, I think Badiarov could be the best option for you.  :) 

SonicMan46

Quote from: Que on November 19, 2010, 11:37:30 PM

And will seriously consider this, don't have a version on violincello da spalla yet. I belive there are now three choices: Kuijken, Badiarov and Terakado?


For those who may be interested in the shoulder cello, check out the posts in the Old Instuments Thread HERE - I own the Kuijken recording, and wonder how the performances might compare to others?   :D

premont

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on November 19, 2010, 11:24:40 AM
Not Don, but...

Sigiswald Kuijken on Accent (cello da spalla).

Sergei Istomin (Analekta).

Some people will say Bruno Cocset on Alpha, but it's not my cup of tea.

BTW, I like Gastinel, but I am a man in love.  ;D

I marginally prefer Dmitri Badiarov to Sigiswald Kuijken, but ideally one should have both as well as Terakado.

Concerning recordings on floor cello my preferred versions are still Heinrich Schiff, Morten Zeuthen and Ralph Kirchbaum, but at the moment I am going through all the sets I own, many of which I do not yet know at all (recent aquisitions), and I have already heard several surprisingly substantial sets from lesser known cellists, so my preferences may change in the future.

I agree partially with - I think it was Scarpia - who recently wrote something like: The difference between baroque cello and "modern" cello is of lesser importance in these works. At least it is true when it is about historically informed cellists born after ca 1950 IMO.

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Antoine Marchand

Quote from: premont on November 20, 2010, 10:25:42 AM
I marginally prefer Dmitri Badiarov to Sigiswald Kuijken, but ideally one should have both as well as Terakado.

Concerning recordings on floor cello my preferred versions are still Heinrich Schiff, Morten Zeuthen and Ralph Kirchbaum, but at the moment I am going through all the sets I own, many of which I do not yet know at all (recent aquisitions), and I have already heard several surprisingly substantial sets from lesser known cellists, so my preferences may change in the future.

Hi, Premont. I just mentioned Kuijken because Badiarov and Terakado are not available on NML, which was Brian's question (I mean fine cello suites available on NML). That's the reason why I included Istomin, not one of my "finalists", but an excellent interpreter. That's also the reason because I spoke about Cocset, also available on NML.   


jlaurson

Quote from: Que on November 19, 2010, 11:37:30 PM
And will seriously consider this, don't have a version on violincello da spalla yet. I belive there are now three choices: Kuijken, Badiarov and Terakado?

Q

That's crazy. Three versions of the Bach Suites on Viola Pomposa already? Classical Music Industry "dead", anyone? Wow. We're spoiled for choice.

Review of the Kuijken, the only one I've heard so far, here: http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=2040

Antoine Marchand

For people interested in the research involved in the rediscovering of the violoncello da spalla, probably the best way is to read an stimulating article by Dmitry Badiarov titled "The Violoncello, Viola da Spalla and Viola Pomposa in Theory and Practice", originally published by the Galpin Society Journal. I got a copy some years ago, as a gift when I suscribed Badirov's blog.

http://www.mediafire.com/?wmsie30ixb0nizi

8)

premont

Thanks, Antoine, quite a treatise. :)
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premont

Quote from: jlaurson on November 21, 2010, 04:33:43 AM
That's crazy. Three versions of the Bach Suites on Viola Pomposa already? 
We're spoiled for choice.

Not at all.  We have been in serious need of these recordings for many years.
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DavidW

Looking back on this thread I saw that I had considered Paolo Beschi's recording, and at least what is on youtube still sounds marvelous, not like that old stodgy Fournier recording. >:D

Anyway but perhaps I need to consider one of the violincello da spalla recordings instead.  Hmm... decisions, decisions.