Schubert's String Quartets

Started by Mark, October 06, 2007, 06:18:44 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

snyprrr

D887: Ma, Kashkashian, Phillips, Kremer

Well, I just heard D887 for the very first time ever. My first thought is that I should have gotten another recording! I can tell there's some music in there somewhere...haha, no, I don't want to make it sound thaaat bad, but the acoustics are pretty tight (for being recorded at YMHA)... way too tight for this "orchestral" music.

Also, I can't tell if my ears are off, but some of these notes just don't seem to make sense, intonationally speaking. I certainly do NOT have perfect pitch, and I can't see why this team should be making any mistakes (it IS a "live" recording, though).

But even the music itself... I don't know whaaat I was expecting, but this SQ seemed like "Death & the Maiden" on steroids. I keep hearing about Schubert's still qualities (perhaps that is the Quintet in C), but this SQ definitely has some emotional issues, that's for sure!  I guess I had built this SQ up in my head, and was certainly expecting something I didn't get.

I did notice in this SQ the most obvious "death" music I've heard outside of Shostakovich.

But, I must say that my aquaintance with this SQ was marred by the tight CBS recording. Some of those musical outbursts were crying out for a little room to breathe in. There was just a bit of aggression in the violin playing, too, I think (which, given, may not be such a bad thing).

I really can't comment on the playing, thought. Is this SQ supposed to sound like this? I did seem to notice that Yo-Yo was the quietest of the bunch, but the other players offered a few interesting, what I might call "idiosyncratic", sounds.

Honestly, I enjoyed SQ No.8 more.

Now I know why, when I initially asked many moons ago, you all said you like the "Rosamunde" better.

snyprrr

I listened to D887 again, and, predictably,  I heard something else!

Now I know were Berg came from!

I want to call this the Liszt Quartet!

I'm even hearing Schnittke, and I don't know hooow much I can blame Kremer for that.

Is this the first SQ for that "rustling wind" 32nd tremolo type stuff?

Why doesn't this sound like the perfect late Beethoven SQ?
Schubert out-Beethovens Beethoven?
This is one strange SQ?


Valentino

It's the "Shall I jump off the cliff"-quartet, and at the end you do not really know if you made the jump or not.
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Cambridge Audio | Logitech | Yamaha | Topping | MiniDSP | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

Gurn Blanston

Anyone familiar with this particular recording?



I was just looking for something different, approach-wise, and this one caught my eye. I've always liked the Hungarians, but never heard them in Schubert.  :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Bunny

Quote from: snyprrr on June 17, 2009, 10:35:05 PM
I listened to D887 again, and, predictably,  I heard something else!

Now I know were Berg came from!

I want to call this the Liszt Quartet!

I'm even hearing Schnittke, and I don't know hooow much I can blame Kremer for that.

Is this the first SQ for that "rustling wind" 32nd tremolo type stuff?

Why doesn't this sound like the perfect late Beethoven SQ?
Schubert out-Beethovens Beethoven?
This is one strange SQ?



Try the Takács Quartet's recording.  They have a terrific recording of Death and the Maiden (paired with Rosamunde -- 14 & 13 together) that is intensity to the nth degree.  I like the take no prisoners interpretation, but it's not for the faint of heart.  Just look at the cover illustration for a good idea of what the quartet is like.


snyprrr

More like "Death & the Hottie" ;D!!!, I'd saaay...
Quote from: Valentino on June 17, 2009, 11:24:27 PM
It's the "Shall I jump off the cliff"-quartet, and at the end you do not really know if you made the jump or not.

Yea, this is kind of my impression too.

Quote from: Bunny on June 18, 2009, 08:39:59 AMI like the take no prisoners interpretation, but it's not for the faint of heart. 

This IS the impression I got from this Ma-Kremer-Kashkashian cd. I guess I really wasn't expecting this SQ to be so...so...angsty. I though late Schubert was known for its placidity, its "heavenly" length, and so on (MUST be the Quintet in C, no?), but D887 is the most gothic thing I've ever heard. I really wasn't prepared for such a revelation.

The more you all chime in, the more I think that this performance that I wasn't to sure about might actually be the shiznit. The ambience still sucks, but it DOES add to the claustrophobic atmosphere.

Also, is Schubert the "inventor" of this...this "style" that I notice in the first two mvmts.? I don't know the correct word for it, but Schubert's way of going from one chord to another is verydifferent from those who came before. I haven't heard this style in late Beethoven, either. But I have heard it in Schnittke!

I hear a steady ratcheting up from "Rosamunde" <"D & M" < D887. It's the same "thing", but in D887, it just explodes.

Once again, I hear "Liszt to Berg" wrapped up in this one SQ.

The birth of hysterics in music?

Bunny

Snyprrr, the quartet is called Death and the Maiden because the second movement is based on the Lied of the same name, which is a very emotional piece.  I don't know if one can fully appreciate the quartet without knowing both the Lied and the poem by Matthias Claudius that inspired it.  The poem is actually a dialogue between a "maiden" and "Death," with the Maiden pleading for death to stay away. It is typical for early 19th century romanticism which focused on unrequited love, premature death, madness, and other tragic themes.   The final movement of the quartet is based on the Tarentella dance form -- another reference to death: According to the folk legends of southern Italy, the only hope of surviving the bite of a taratula was to dance frenetically until one recovered or died, hence the origin of the dance. With such themes reflecting Schubert's own knowledge of his infection with syphilis and the almost certainly premature death that went along with the diagnosis, I think you should have expected the darkness of this work.

snyprrr

I was still referring to D887. ;D

Have not been able to enjoy D & M yet. Both of these SQs (especially D887) have some kind of fevered (syph?), infected hysteria that I just can't cozy up to yet. I feeel sick listening to them, you know what I mean?...or, I feel the sickness in them?

Bunny

Quote from: snyprrr on June 20, 2009, 07:29:44 AM
I was still referring to D887. ;D

Have not been able to enjoy D & M yet. Both of these SQs (especially D887) have some kind of fevered (syph?), infected hysteria that I just can't cozy up to yet. I feeel sick listening to them, you know what I mean?...or, I feel the sickness in them?

You really have to relax!  Schubert was sick with a serious disease, his music may have reflected his personal anxiety, or it may have reflected the societal mood of his times.  Morbid preoccupation with death was a theme that ran through German and European literature in general, especially "Gothic" literature and art. You live in the 21st century and you should be able to distance yourself enough to appreciate the music without turning it into an intellectual exercise in masochism. 

snyprrr


Valentino

We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Cambridge Audio | Logitech | Yamaha | Topping | MiniDSP | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

The new erato

Quote from: Bunny on June 20, 2009, 08:02:53 AM
You live in the 21st century and you should be able to distance yourself enough to appreciate the music without turning it into an intellectual exercise in masochism. 
Yes, but very little music - even Mahlers 6th symphony - is as anguished as D 887.

snyprrr

Quote from: erato on June 22, 2009, 12:13:55 AM
Yes, but very little music - even Mahlers 6th symphony - is as anguished as D 887.

That's why Schnittke came to mind. Seriously, I never thought I'd label something from 1826 "disturbing." And, was it "Erato"?, talking about the Hagen disc, that it was "four surgeons cutting you apart." All of a sudden I'm thinking Burke and Hare meet Jack the Ripper!!!... but in an operatic way! No, to me, D887 has something akin to a mocking, decomposing corpse in a Poe story. Have you ever smelled death???... or, have you ever heard the smell of death? This Schubert actually reminds me of Zorn's SQs in its morbidity. I don't even know if I like D887, but I am compelled... like rubberneckers at a horrible roadside car wreck. Death. Death. Death.

Valentino

#73
Quote from: snyprrr on June 22, 2009, 12:26:20 PM
And, was it "Erato"?, talking about the Hagen disc, that it was "four surgeons cutting you apart."
Sounds like something I might have said. I guess you could get a "four chainsaws chopping you to bits" treatment elsewhere. ;D
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Cambridge Audio | Logitech | Yamaha | Topping | MiniDSP | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

Renfield

#74
On a tangent to the above discussion: the 'Death and the Maiden' quartet, apart from being the first piece of chamber music I fell in love with, a sucker for angsty drama as I am (also see: Mahler ;)), must be one of the few personal favourite pieces of music of which I am content to own a very limited numbers of recordings.

Between the Busch, the Takacs and the Hagen, even the Quarteto Italiano I also own has come to feel somewhat superfluous.

Edit: My point being that the quartet seems so musically sound, and the best performances so competent, that it feels 'covered'.

George

Quote from: Renfield on June 23, 2009, 02:11:53 AM
Between the Busch, the Takacs and the Hagen, even the Quarteto Italiano I also own has come to feel somewhat superfluous.

Edit: My point being that the quartet seems so musically sound, and the best performances so competent, that it feels 'covered'.

Sound like it's time that I cracked open my copy of the Busch. I have the Sony CD issue. Did they make more than one recording of this work?

DavidW

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 18, 2009, 04:48:17 AM
Anyone familiar with this particular recording?



I was just looking for something different, approach-wise, and this one caught my eye. I've always liked the Hungarians, but never heard them in Schubert.  :)

8)

Yes that's one of the best.  It's worth buying if you're unhappy with your current recording.  It will not offer an interpretation dramatically different from Melos if that's what you're looking for.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: DavidW on June 29, 2009, 09:14:34 AM
Yes that's one of the best.  It's worth buying if you're unhappy with your current recording.  It will not offer an interpretation dramatically different from Melos if that's what you're looking for.

Thanks, David. That was precisely what i wanted to know. ;)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

snyprrr

Kodaly/1,4,8:

This is the one that got all the Gramophone/Penguin love. I'm listening to it now. I have no compare except for the Lydian in No.8 (the Lydian a bit tighter). What say ye? I'm sure the Kodaly are sounding a bit polite and polished, plush, perhaps? I can sense a rustic peasant quality I'm missing. I mean, it's very nice... is this what Schubert sounds like in Heaven?

The opening of No.1 (heard for the first time) is now my favorite Schubert! Ha, ain't that something... you can hear all the way to No.15 from this intro! (especially coming after No.8 as it is on this cd!) Wow, IMHO this one out-minors the competition! Very gothic stuff, haha! (of course, the rest of the SQ doesn't really keep up until the very end)

No.4 also has a most bizarre intro!

I can really imagine someone like the Hagen just tearing these SQs to bits!... but I do kind of like the Kodaly's '30s-movies approach, very nostalgic.


What're your fav Schubert SQs, pre-Quartettsatz in c minor?


DavidW

Mr Snipper,

Throw that Kodaly away, and buy this--