The Early Music Club (EMC)

[San Antone]

It will not be available in the USA until Jan. 1, 2020 - but I will certainly want to hear it.  I too do not share Harry's opinion of Beauty Farm.  While I find their choice of cover art objectionable, I think their music-making displays excellent taste.  The same is true for The Sound and the Fury.

A post must have been deleted that referred to this recording:



Since that is the recording I said would not be available until Jan. 2020.

[San Antone]

Love Revelry & the Dance in Mediaeval Music
Millenarium

Millenarium has recorded several discs for Ricercar devoted to the secular monadic repertoire of the Middle Ages. They are brought together here for a complete view of a time when the only religious music was Gregorian chant. The recording includes songs for troubadours and trouvères, tender and bawdy pieces from the famous Carmina Burana manuscript, and the reconstruction of the Messe des joueurs. The Danza is devoted to the little-known repertoire of mediaeval dance music and instrumental pieces that provoke an irresistible urge to dance!

[Carlo Gesualdo]

I wonder why all early music is toss in one singular post, and we are obligated to post there. I acknowledge early music is early music but medieval and renaissance is way different. I don't wont to dis-respected this trend, the person who started this trend, but renaissance music is not medieval music in a broad sense, I would like to start a trend on renaissance only, How about a renaissance tread that I could start if I had the permission to do so...

There is very early music such as Gregorian and medieval lore music, but renaissance has not much in common whit medieval music, all I'm trying to say is may I have the permission to start a renaissance only tread, beside this Capella Flamenca on another subject may as well be the best ensemble, I'm listening to Jacob Clement non papa, this ensemble does wonder whit renaissance composer all I heard and all they done is fabulous, take for instance there Lambert de Sayve is really quite something , the reason why I ask for a renaissance Tread is late renaissance is closer to baroque and lesser point in comment to medieval ancient lore. Can I start a renaissance Tread whiteout it being lump in early music, some people are fan of renaissance more so than medieval, to me not having a renaissance tread does not make any sense???

What do you think create a renaissance tread for ddie hard fan of this era would seem a good idea, instead of a tread (fourre tout) if you know what I mean.

To me early music start whit the fall of roman empire and end whit Ars subtilior. Can I have my little renaissance p*ssing ground tread lol.

Thank for reading and think about it. What your cue on this mater?

[San Antone]

I am opposed to creating different threads for Medieval; Renaissance, etc. other than threads devoted to an individual composer. 

I think that the EMC has lasted a long time as it is, and is a valuable repository for all the music of pre-Baroque periods.  Having a single thread for Early Music is functional and convenient.

My two cents.

[Mandryka]

I wonder why all early music is toss in one singular post, and we are obligated to post there. I acknowledge early music is early music but medieval and renaissance is way different. I don't wont to dis-respected this trend, the person who started this trend, but renaissance music is not medieval music in a broad sense, I would like to start a trend on renaissance only, How about a renaissance tread that I could start if I had the permission to do so...

There is very early music such as Gregorian and medieval lore music, but renaissance has not much in common whit medieval music, all I'm trying to say is may I have the permission to start a renaissance only tread, beside this Capella Flamenca on another subject may as well be the best ensemble, I'm listening to Jacob Clement non papa, this ensemble does wonder whit renaissance composer all I heard and all they done is fabulous, take for instance there Lambert de Sayve is really quite something , the reason why I ask for a renaissance Tread is late renaissance is closer to baroque and lesser point in comment to medieval ancient lore. Can I start a renaissance Tread whiteout it being lump in early music, some people are fan of renaissance more so than medieval, to me not having a renaissance tread does not make any sense???

What do you think create a renaissance tread for ddie hard fan of this era would seem a good idea, instead of a tread (fourre tout) if you know what I mean.

To me early music start whit the fall of roman empire and end whit Ars subtilior. Can I have my little renaissance p*ssing ground tread lol.

Thank for reading and think about it. What your cue on this mater?

I would have a Renaissance thread, and rename this one the pre modern club, since the modernity  started around 1500.

[San Antone]

I would have a Renaissance thread, and rename this one the pre modern club, since the modernity  started around 1500.

There is a problem placing composers squarely in a period, Dufay for example bridges the Medieval and Renaissance - and then there's the long transition from the Renaissance to the Baroque.  Using arbitrary labels to divide up a topic which is fairly straight forward I don't see as productive.   It is widely accepted that these labels are crude and have limited usefulness.

And I have no idea what you are talking about with "modernity" beginning in 1500.  Are you trying to needlessly complicate matters even more?

[prémont]

There is a problem placing composers squarely in a period, Dufay for example bridges the Medieval and Renaissance - and then there's the long transition from the Renaissance to the Baroque.  Using arbitrary labels to divide up a topic which is fairly straight forward I don't see as productive.   It is widely accepted that these labels are crude and have limited usefulness.

And I have no idea what you are talking about with "modernity" beginning in 1500.  Are you trying to needlessly complicate matters even more?

I think Mandryka meant 1600 (and not 1500). By then Seconda pratica or Stile moderno began in Italy.

[San Antone]

I think Mandryka meant 1600 (and not 1500). By then Seconda pratica or Stile moderno began in Italy.

I think most music historians date the Baroque period from 1600 - 1750, or thereabouts.

Wikipedia has these periods:

Early period
Medieval era   c. 500–1400
Renaissance era   c. 1400–1600

Common practice period
Baroque era   c. 1600–1730
Classical era   c. 1730–1830
Romantic era   c. 1830–1900

Which is how GMG has also divided up the threads. 

[prémont]

I think most music historians date the Baroque period from 1600 - 1750, or thereabouts.

Wikipedia has these periods:

Early period
Medieval era   c. 500–1400
Renaissance era   c. 1400–1600

Common practice period
Baroque era   c. 1600–1730
Classical era   c. 1730–1830
Romantic era   c. 1830–1900

Which is how GMG has also divided up the threads.

This is also how I think about it.

[Mandryka]

What happened in 1400 to make it the start of renaissance?

For me, the start of the renaissance comes with the  rejection of the idea that the universe is meaningfully ordered, the characteristic of the renaissance is the idea that the universe is ultimately contingent correlations, modelable in maths.

[Mandryka]

Dufay for example bridges the Medieval and Renaissance

I know this is the sort of thing you hear in introductory music classes. I'm not totally sure, but my impression is that David Fallows sees Dufay as very much a Medieval composer. Maybe someone who can put their hands on the book could check -- I just have a memory . . .

[San Antone]

What happened in 1400 to make it the start of renaissance?

For me, the start of the renaissance comes with the  rejection of the idea that the universe is meaningfully ordered, the characteristic of the renaissance is the idea that the universe is ultimately contingent correlations, modelable in maths.

The dating of these historical periods is different for music than for literature and art, generally later.  Mainly, periods are divided according to developments in the music, i.e. with the development of ideas about tonality we have a different period than how earlier composers treated harmony.  When there was an awareness of a vertical harmonic progression as opposed to thinking of the music as linear musical parts we get the dividing lines between Medieval and Renaissance.  1400 is a convenient date stamp.

But as I said these datings are crude at best, and almost useless from the standpoint of saying anything meaningful about the seamless development from Machaut to Bach.

[Mandryka]

Ah, you can see that all my background and orientation is in philosophy and not in music!

[prémont]

Ah, you can see that all my background and orientation is in philosophy and not in music!

In my humble opinion it doesn't make much sense to parallelise renaissance in music with renaissance in philosophy and science.

[Mandryka]

Well you musos have asked for it by calling it renaissance music, filching a word from the history of ideas! You should have called it "post modal" or something like that!

[prémont]

Well you musos have asked for it by calling it renaissance music, filching a word from the history of ideas! You should have called it "post modal" or something like that!

Well, this is after all a music forum.

The term "post modal" may be misleading, since all music from Medieval age to atonal "age", yes indeed until our age may be called post modal.

[San Antone]

Is Monteverdi a Renaissance or Baroque composer?  What about Gesualdo? 

Soler: Baroque or Classical?  He was born within a few years of Haydn, and CPE Bach was born before both.  Within which period does CPE Bach fall?

[dissily Mordentroge]

I wonder why all early music is toss in one singular post, and we are obligated to post there. I acknowledge early music is early music but medieval and renaissance is way different. I don't wont to dis-respected this trend, the person who started this trend, but renaissance music is not medieval music in a broad sense, I would like to start a trend on renaissance only, How about a renaissance tread that I could start if I had the permission to do so...

There is very early music such as Gregorian and medieval lore music, but renaissance has not much in common whit medieval music, all I'm trying to say is may I have the permission to start a renaissance only tread, beside this Capella Flamenca on another subject may as well be the best ensemble, I'm listening to Jacob Clement non papa, this ensemble does wonder whit renaissance composer all I heard and all they done is fabulous, take for instance there Lambert de Sayve is really quite something , the reason why I ask for a renaissance Tread is late renaissance is closer to baroque and lesser point in comment to medieval ancient lore. Can I start a renaissance Tread whiteout it being lump in early music, some people are fan of renaissance more so than medieval, to me not having a renaissance tread does not make any sense???

What do you think create a renaissance tread for ddie hard fan of this era would seem a good idea, instead of a tread (fourre tout) if you know what I mean.

To me early music start whit the fall of roman empire and end whit Ars subtilior. Can I have my little renaissance p*ssing ground tread lol.

Thank for reading and think about it. What your cue on this mater?

Which raises a question I've had for some time. How early does early music have to be and how late is the cut-off point? ( assuming the unlikely scenario music developed simultaniously all over Europe) I'm also curious as to how far east of/in Europe such a classification can be accepted, especially given the repertoire of  groups such as Jordi Savall's. Not that smelling a rose by any other name etc.

[Que]

The Early Music Club was created for various reasons already mentioned.

There used to be a Medieval thread, which attracted very little activity .
There was also a Renaissance thread with more activity. But many are interested in music from both periods and a distinction is sometimes difficult to make. As a result distinction between the threads became blurred and the decision was made to merge the various threads to this general Early Music thread. And the concept has worked wonderfully well, offering a home for short discussions on various composers or on the performing practices.

I am actually not that keen on the shortlived one-off topics that attract not more than a handful of responses and then dissappear. But that's me.

Q

[Mandryka]

A post must have been deleted that referred to this recording:



Since that is the recording I said would not be available until Jan. 2020.

I'll be interested to hear what people think at the level of the sound of the recording, the sonority of the voices and the engineering of the recording. Initial impressions are that it's a bit of a challenge but nothing follows.  I kind of can't get past the sound to think about other things.