Topic: The Early Music Club (EMC)

[(: premont :)]

Got a 10/10 on ClassicstodayFrance.
Anyone heard it? Does anyone know this ensemble?

Inspired by que I listened to this, which was in my listening queue, to day.

Very pure and beautiful singing, the undulating diminutions from the instruments lending the relative static singing momentum and life, certainly a special effect. It is difficult to tell, where knowledge ends and conjecture or artistic freedom takes over, but the sounding result is striking and convincing, and this is what matters in this repertoire.

[Que]

Anyone familiar with Fransico Guerrero's secular output on three discs on the Spanish Enchiriadis label?
A good listing of that label HERE.



Q

[Que]

Another specialist Spanish label I've just came across, is the label of the Capella de Ministrers (CDM) with conductor Carles Magraner. Samples on their site indicate they are a group to reckon with. Discs are available HERE.

Anyone familiar with this recording of Victoria's Requiem?



A very interesting review of this recording HERE.

Q

[Harry]

Another specialist Spanish label I've just came across, is the label of the Capella de Ministers with conductor Carles Magraner. Samples on their site indicate they are a group to reckon with. Discs are available HERE.

Anyone familiar with this recording of Victoria's Requiem?


[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.capelladeministrers.com/DOCUMENTOS_E/AGNUSDEIACDM%200615.MP3[/mp3]

A very interesting review of this recording HERE.

Q

Looks and sounds very promising, so I will order a few of them.
Thanks for the link.
How on earth do you find such obscure places?

[FideLeo]

A very interesting review of this recording HERE.

Hmm. Just like what Rene Jacobs used to do in Monteverdi.  It may sound more interesting to our ears,
but it is also true that that approach really hasn't had many new converts (among musicians) over the
years.   Reason?  We don't really know how these were performed in terms of instrumentation details.
BTW, McCreesh's name is a notable omission among the Brit musicians mentioned by this reviewer, for
reasons that may not be so difficult to figure out.... 

[Que]

So... Magraner's guess is as good as anyone's? 

Q

[FideLeo]

So... Magraner's guess is as good as anyone's? 

Q

When there is a dearth of hard data to back one up, I guess it's fair to say so.  No?  True, Magraner is a scholar in the field, but McCreesh, Parrott, etc. probably weren't making wild guesses either when they chose only to use a bass dulcian (the Spanish word is bajon I think) to double the bass voice(s). 

Bear in mind that reviews were written to sell more (HIP or not) recordings. The sound snippet from the Victoria didn't really grab me either, but your mileage may vary.

[Que]

The sound snippet from the Victoria didn't really grab me either, but your mileage may vary.

Well, I would have to hear more to make a fair judgement. But I feel that McGreesh hits the right spot for me. 

Q

[bassio]

Another specialist Spanish label I've just came across, is the label of the Capella de Ministrers (CDM) with conductor Carles Magraner. Samples on their site indicate they are a group to reckon with. Discs are available HERE.

Anyone familiar with this recording of Victoria's Requiem?


[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.capelladeministrers.com/DOCUMENTOS_E/AGNUSDEIACDM%200615.MP3[/mp3]

A very interesting review of this recording HERE.

Q

Never went into this era/type of music. It sounds very ... English! 

[bassio]

On mentioning Jacobs flutotransverso -
I was quite interested in hearing Jacobs' as a conductor and his accounts on Monteverdi/other music, what do you think?
hmmm, will open a new thread for this sometime later .. we don't want to hijack this thread


By the way: On my last post - I assume of course that the composer is English, correct? Pretty evident in the mp3 sample. 

[The new erato]

By the way: On my last post - I assume of course that the composer is English, correct? Pretty evident in the mp3 sample. 

Tomas Luis de Victoria - do you really think that sounds English? Spains perhaps greatest Renaissance composer..........

[bassio]

So Victoria is Spanish then    .. Calm down folks, its not like I have mistaken the queen [pun intended  ]

But really, from only listening to the sample, the 'style' gives a feel of "English" whatever that means; even the reviewer you linked to seems to agree with me 

By the way, which choice is more sensible to approach when someone is a beginner to the Renaissance period:
Josquin or Palestrina or Dufay or Gesualdo?

Suggestions welcome.

[The new erato]

So Victoria is Spanish then    .. Calm down folks, its not like I have mistaken the queen [pun intended  ]

But really, from only listening to the sample, the 'style' gives a feel of "English" whatever that means; even the reviewer you linked to seems to agree with me 

By the way, which choice is more sensible to approach when someone is a beginner to the Renaissance period:
Josquin or Palestrina or Dufay or Gesualdo?

Suggestions welcome.

Josquin is as different from Palestrina as Brahms is from late Stravinsky. The same with Dufay vs Gesualdo. So this is difficult to answer as it has lots to do with taste and listening experience/preferences.

My advice is to listen to a crosselection and explore what you like.

Dufay, Josquin and Palestrina are cornerstones of different periods and styles.

If you like Dufay, continue with Binchois, Busnois and other late 15thcentury composers
If you like Josauin, you're really spoilt with Obrecht, Isaac, de la Rue and tons of early to mid 16th century  Northerners..
If you like Palestrina; Victoria, Morales, parts of Lassus etc.

Madrigals are really a subject all to itself, besides Gesualdo, explore Marenzio and Monteverdi (first)

[Que]

I have decided to revive this thread, and broadening the scope beyond pointers for "beginners" to general discussion on recordings of music from the Renaissance. Moved and renamed the thread accordingly - Corey, hope you don't mind!


                       click picture for more samples

Got this a while ago, since I was much charmed by other Iberian Renaissance music by this ensemble under Michael Noone: Guerrero's Requiem and Morales' Assumption Mass (see also previous posts). And the success story continues, as far as I'm concerned.

The music contains the Missa Super Flumina Babylonis with added plainsongs, sung by the Spanish Schola Antigua, and hymns. In early music I feel the approach of the performers as well as the way of recording is crucial. And performance and recording are drop dead gorgeous: transparent, beautifully phrased, natural. Guerrero's polyphony is show cased for everybody to admire. Naturally, in comparison with the Requiem, this music has a more lighter touch. I find Guerrero's music strikingly colourful - a major attraction.

Maybe not as essential as the Requiem, but for those who want more Guerrero after that: this is the way to go. Recommended.

Q

[71 dB]

I did sample Dufay, Josquin Desprez, Obrecht and Ockegheim recently. It's all very similar, not much difference between composers. The church restricted artistical freedom so that's not surprising. The music is ok but not very interesting considering longer listening sessions. I wish they used instruments in church music to add color.

[The new erato]

I did sample Dufay, Josquin Desprez, Obrecht and Ockegheim recently. It's all very similar, not much difference between composers.

No it's not, and if you had any understanding of counterpoint as you claim in another thread you wouldn't claim it to be. Their contrapunctal technique is very different (as any textbook can tell you, eg in use of small motivic cells vs use of long themes, independence between parts, canonic technique etc etc in absurdum), their attidude towards dissonance differs, cadenctial tecniques vary considerably, relationship between words and music (the way that individual words and parts of words are related to individual notes etc) are very different, etc, etc.

When you've listened to this music constantly for some decades you can pass judgement. That you feel that they SOUND similar to you (if that is what you meant) just tells me that you haven't really LISTENED to this music at all. Which is okay by me as long as you don't say that these composers are similar.   

[71 dB]

No it's not, and if you had any understanding of counterpoint as you claim in another thread you wouldn't claim it to be. Their contrapunctal technique is very different (as any textbook can tell you, eg in use of small motivic cells vs use of long themes, independence between parts, canonic technique etc etc in absurdum), their attidude towards dissonance differs, cadenctial tecniques vary considerably, relationship between words and music (the way that individual words and parts of words are related to individual notes etc) are very different, etc, etc.

When you've listened to this music constantly for some decades you can pass judgement. That you feel that they SOUND similar to you (if that is what you meant) just tells me that you haven't really LISTENED to this music at all. Which is okay by me as long as you don't say that these composers are similar.   

You got me wrong. Of course they have differences as you stated but they don't sound as different as the composers of later centuries. I admit I am not an expert of renaissance music. I have never claimed to be. I am more a baroque nut.

Btw, I think Obrecht sounded most interesting...

[maswot]

I did sample Dufay, Josquin Desprez, Obrecht and Ockegheim recently. It's all very similar, not much difference between composers. The church restricted artistical freedom so that's not surprising. The music is ok but not very interesting considering longer listening sessions. I wish they used instruments in church music to add color.

If you're interested in early music that stretches the ear, in terms of unexpected harmonies and intervals, then in addition to Gesualdo previously mentioned, you should check out Richafort's Requiem. There's a fine recording of it by Paul Huelgas. These early composers were breaking new ground and figuring out what worked and what didn't, so they were not at all artistically repressed, at least not in the sense that we think of it today. The church was then, and to a certain extent always has been, a place of vastly divergent opinions on just about everything, with one faction in favor during one period and a rival faction gaining the upper hand in the next. There was a lot of creative thinking going on back then, and the mere fact that these composers were starting to be known by name is itself an indication of the rise of the individual during this period. A lot of these early composers were remarkably inventive, and in some of them you can find things that did not reappear again until Bartok. -- Marc


PS. For anyone looking for a great introduction to music from this period, check out the Tallis Scholar's recording of the Allegri Miserere.

[The new erato]

You got me wrong.

Okay, I accept that. But what I want to take issue with is the expectation that these differences will be obvious for an occasional listener unaccustomed to the idiom. For someone totally unaccustomed to classical music Elgar and Racmaninov/ff might sound quite similar, too.

[The new erato]

There's a fine recording of it by Paul Huelgas.

Paul van Nevel/Huelgas Ensemble. Very sumptuous recording, indeed.