The Early Music Club (EMC)

[Mandryka]

I'll just add that in the Missa Cantilena, the Gloria En Attendant, which is attributed to MdP, the instrumental part is very characterful, and there does seem to be a "fundamental tension" between voice and instruments, to use Memelsdorff's rather nice turn of phrase. Not disimilar from what you have in A qui fortune on Hélas Avril. Very exciting  music making from Mala Punica I'd say.

[prémont]

I'll just add that in the Missa Cantilena, the Gloria En Attendant, which is attributed to MdP, the instrumental part is very characterful, and there does seem to be a "fundamental tension" between voice and instruments, to use Memelsdorff's rather nice turn of phrase. Not disimilar from what you have in A qui fortune on Hélas Avril. Very exciting  music making from Mala Punica I'd say.

In secular music from that age there are no definite indications as to whether a line should be instrumental or vocal, there are only modern theories. And we shall never know for sure. So Memelsdorff's theories may be just as valid as anyone else's. And as to sacred music we only know, that the only allowed instrument in the church was the organ, but we do not know, how it was used in relation to the mass proper, if at all. But if the composer intended a horizontal dialogue between singers and an instrumental part, he most probably meant the organ to be used.

[Mandryka]

So what we have here is motets by a prolific composer called Jean Hanelle, possibly from Cambrai, all his work collected in a large manuscript in Turin which, up to now, has been dismissed by musicologists as formulaic, mass produced, mainstream, probably written under time pressures, more concerned with medieval scholastic ideas than with expressiveness or beauty.

Then along comes Bjorn Schmelzer, and he says that the manuscript contains some isorhythmic Latin motets  which make a cycle. And I must say it makes a fabulous cycle too! Hallucinatory music  music. No one could say that they are formulaic, mass produced.

So what's happened? The answer is, of course, that Graindelavoix have been been inspired by the texts to liberally add expression to their performances

It is the performer who puts this exegetic work into play by articulating these figurae, phrasing the sequential and mnemonic aspects of the isorhythmic formula and creating and integrating cadences with the help of musica ficta which structure the movement and create affective suspense, drive, dynamic. Understanding for the per- former and the listener means being affective and being affected: being moved.

[San Antone]

So what we have here is motets by a prolific composer called Jean Hanelle, possibly from Cambrai, all his work collected in a large manuscript in Turin which, up to now, has been dismissed by musicologists as formulaic, mass produced, mainstream, probably written under time pressures, more concerned with medieval scholastic ideas than with expressiveness or beauty.

Then along comes Bjorn Schmelzer, and he says that the manuscript contains some isorhythmic Latin motets  which make a cycle. And I must say it makes a fabulous cycle too! Hallucinatory music  music. No one could say that they are formulaic, mass produced.

So what's happened? The answer is, of course, that Graindelavoix have been been inspired by the texts to liberally add expression to their performances

Is this new?  I must look it up.

[Mandryka]

Here are some letters between Sigiswald Kuijken and Bjorn Schmelzer

http://www.graindelavoix.org/pdfs/musica%20antiqua%20revisited%20english.pdf

[San Antone]

So what we have here is motets by a prolific composer called Jean Hanelle, possibly from Cambrai, all his work collected in a large manuscript in Turin which, up to now, has been dismissed by musicologists as formulaic, mass produced, mainstream, probably written under time pressures, more concerned with medieval scholastic ideas than with expressiveness or beauty.

Then along comes Bjorn Schmelzer, and he says that the manuscript contains some isorhythmic Latin motets  which make a cycle. And I must say it makes a fabulous cycle too! Hallucinatory music  music. No one could say that they are formulaic, mass produced.

So what's happened? The answer is, of course, that Graindelavoix have been been inspired by the texts to liberally add expression to their performances

Is this new?  I must look it up.

I did not realize at first that this is the 2016 recording Cypriot Vespers (your image was hard to read).  I have this in my collection and like most of Schmelzer's recordings I enjoyed it for a while before the sound becomes strident and I don't listen anymore.  But I should listen again since it's been probably a year since I last put it in the player.

Here are some letters between Sigiswald Kuijken and Bjorn Schmelzer

http://www.graindelavoix.org/pdfs/musica%20antiqua%20revisited%20english.pdf

Long-winded chaps.

[Mandryka]

I enjoyed it for a while before the sound becomes strident and I don't listen anymore. 

I can well imagine this is true, once the novelty wears off. At some point I'd like to make sense of what they do about the textual interrelationships (alleged) between the two poems in the double O-motets. They seem to suggest that there's a sort of third meaning which comes into existence through the clash of the other two in the performance - we shall see of this is bullshit or deep . . . I have a slight suspicion that what Schmelzer does is superficial in this sense: it's exciting and strange at first but once you've heard it you know what they do and there's no point in going back. It's all surfaces. I hope I'm wrong.

I listened last night to Si Didero (Agricola) by Schmelzer and Orlando Consort (theirs is on the excellent CD called A Toledo Summit -- my favourite Orlando CD)

Schmelzer uses instruments to replace two of the voices (no idea why!) and he balances it so that the voice which remains is sometimes almost drowned out. His performance is thrilling and sensual, visceral.

Orlando is intimate and rarefied, I much prefer the Orlando version.

I first got interested in Agricola's Si Didero years ago because Obrecht wrote an excellent mass based on it. I think it was a real hit for Agricola.

[Mr. Minnow]

Does anyone here have anything by an ensemble called Mora Vocis? I'd never heard of them until stumbling across one of their discs by accident earlier today. I can't find much info online other than their website, which mentions "circus artists, actors or dancer-choreographers" joining the ensemble in performances and also says that "rather than attempting to produce a historical reconstruction, Mora Vocis simply shares its passion for these musical treasures, from virtuosic neumæ to the complex polyphony of Ars subtilior."

I can't say the above sounds overly promising, on the other hand the few samples I've heard sound better than expected. A search of this forum yielded no results, so I'm guessing no-one here is familiar with them, but if anyone is I'd be interested to know what you think of them.

[Mandryka]

Just a post to draw the attention to this extraordinary recording of exquisite and quiet C12 latin music. It turns out that Mauricio Melina  is an academic in the field working out of Montpellier, and the music here comes out of his research. What I can say with some confidence is that there's a tone of authenticity. I don't mean anything to do with historical accuracy, that's something I can't comment on. I mean that there's nothing rote or uninspired about the music making here, there's an honesty about about what they do, I can't explain it better than that.

I came across it while exploring Philippe Le Chancelier - it stood out, as it were.

[Mandryka]

Does anyone here have anything by an ensemble called Mora Vocis? I'd never heard of them until stumbling across one of their discs by accident earlier today. I can't find much info online other than their website, which mentions "circus artists, actors or dancer-choreographers" joining the ensemble in performances and also says that "rather than attempting to produce a historical reconstruction, Mora Vocis simply shares its passion for these musical treasures, from virtuosic neumæ to the complex polyphony of Ars subtilior."

I can't say the above sounds overly promising, on the other hand the few samples I've heard sound better than expected. A search of this forum yielded no results, so I'm guessing no-one here is familiar with them, but if anyone is I'd be interested to know what you think of them.

I'd come across their CD called Tombeau before and I remember thinking it was interesting but didn't pursue it, just listening for about 10 minutes to random tracks makes me think that they're rather good as you suggest. I found this - if you want me to translate it let me know. I'd quite like to go to a concert 

Mora Vocis est un ensemble à voix de femmes spécialisé dans l'interprétation des musiques du Moyen-Age et d'aujourd'hui. Sa particularité est de chanter non pas en position de concert traditionnel mais en déambulation dans les lieux qu'elles investissent, qu'ils soient patrimoniaux ou contemporains. L'ensemble existe depuis 1986 mais connaît une étape nouvelle cette année avec l'arrivée d'une directrice artistique, Els Janssens-Vanmunster (il fonctionnait avant sans direction artistique) et le début d'un partenariat de recherche, de création et de formation de 4 ans à l'Université Montpellier III. Ce nouveau site doit marquer cette évolution en réaffirmant l'identité de l'ensemble, en marquant sa qualité et son exigence musicale dans des répertoires très pointus tout en mettant en avant sa créativité, sa capacité à décaler le regard sur cette musique pour la rendre «contemporaine».

http://www.moravocis.fr/english--

Looks like Montpellier is the place to be

[San Antone]

Just a post to draw the attention to this extraordinary recording of exquisite and quiet C12 latin music. It turns out that Mauricio Melina  is an academic in the field working out of Montpellier, and the music here comes out of his research. What I can say with some confidence is that there's a tone of authenticity. I don't mean anything to do with historical accuracy, that's something I can't comment on. I mean that there's nothing rote or uninspired about the music making here, there's an honesty about about what they do, I can't explain it better than that.

I came across it while exploring Philippe Le Chancelier - it stood out, as it were.

I can't read the print on your back cover and without the cover art there is a question: Are you referencing the recording Vacillantus by the ensemble Magister Petrus ?



If so, it is excellent example of 12th century music.

[San Antone]

Does anyone here have anything by an ensemble called Mora Vocis? I'd never heard of them until stumbling across one of their discs by accident earlier today. I can't find much info online other than their website, which mentions "circus artists, actors or dancer-choreographers" joining the ensemble in performances and also says that "rather than attempting to produce a historical reconstruction, Mora Vocis simply shares its passion for these musical treasures, from virtuosic neumæ to the complex polyphony of Ars subtilior."

I can't say the above sounds overly promising, on the other hand the few samples I've heard sound better than expected. A search of this forum yielded no results, so I'm guessing no-one here is familiar with them, but if anyone is I'd be interested to know what you think of them.

I am not a fan of all female groups, generally.  But their repertoire is a cut above the average and their aversion to vibrato is a plus.  In places they almost sound like men, another plus.

[Mandryka]

I can't read the print on your back cover and without the cover art there is a question: Are you referencing the recording Vacillantus by the ensemble Magister Petrus ?



If so, it is excellent example of 12th century music.

Yes that's the one. I like it very much, I've played it twice today, it's obviously touched the spot.

[Mandryka]

I am not a fan of all female groups, generally.

Well in that case you should avoid this one from Ensemble Providencia, which I also found today, it's outstanding, I prefer the sound this group makes to La Reverdie I think. Unfortunately they seem to have made just one CD and then disappeared. The way they create counterpoints  out of this music is really nice, there are sometimes juicy dissonances and unexpected textures. 

[milk]

I can't speak to the authenticity of this music and I don't think it's been mentioned here, but I'm enjoying this. I believe he plays some version of an ancient lyre:

And this even more:

I don't know much about this musician, Michael Levy. I'm checking out his website. He dresses up:

But is he the only one making this kind of music? I love it. I'm curious what others might think. I don't have ANYTHING like this in my collection.

[Mr. Minnow]

I managed to get hold of a couple of Mora Vocis CDs:

   

From the bits I've heard so far it seems it was worth taking a chance on them. It's a shame their releases are generally only available at stupid prices.


Is anyone familiar with this:




I just came across it while looking for something else. It's the sort of thing I'd normally buy in a heartbeat, so I wondered if it was something I'd seen ages ago, tried the samples and not liked them and then forgotten about it. But the samples sound fine, so unless I bought it years ago and have completely forgotten doing so (possible if it's in a pile of discs tucked away in a corner somewhere out of sight, but still, not very likely) it would appear to be one that slipped through the net.

[Zeus]

Yes that's the one. I like it very much, I've played it twice today, it's obviously touched the spot.

Sold!  You should get a commission!

[Mandryka]

I




Is anyone familiar with this:




I just came across it while looking for something else. It's the sort of thing I'd normally buy in a heartbeat, so I wondered if it was something I'd seen ages ago, tried the samples and not liked them and then forgotten about it. But the samples sound fine, so unless I bought it years ago and have completely forgotten doing so (possible if it's in a pile of discs tucked away in a corner somewhere out of sight, but still, not very likely) it would appear to be one that slipped through the net.

The sound seems fine, if close. I mean, it's perfectly listenable.

He takes it pretty fast in all four parts of the ordinarium. It's a performance, without a sense of inwardness or prayer or expressiveness apart from thrilling speed. He's memorably good in the amen of the gloria. IMO very bad in the benedictus. Meh elsewhere

[Mr. Minnow]

The sound seems fine, if close. I mean, it's perfectly listenable.

He takes it pretty fast in all four parts of the ordinarium. It's a performance, without a sense of inwardness or prayer or expressiveness apart from thrilling speed. He's memorably good in the amen of the gloria. IMO very bad in the benedictus. Meh elsewhere

Thanks for that.

Having just listened to the samples again I see what you mean about how fast he takes the ordinarium. The lack of a sense of inwardness doesn't sound too promising either. Some bits do still sound interesting, but as I already have the recordings by Peres, Ensemble De Caelis and Tonus Peregrinus this may be one I'll only pick up if I see it going cheap. 

[Mandryka]

Thanks for that.

Having just listened to the samples again I see what you mean about how fast he takes the ordinarium. The lack of a sense of inwardness doesn't sound too promising either. Some bits do still sound interesting, but as I already have the recordings by Peres, Ensemble De Caelis and Tonus Peregrinus this may be one I'll only pick up if I see it going cheap.

One to think about getting I think is Pro Cantione Antiqua.