The Early Music Club (EMC)

[San Antone]

Speaking of Schmelzer, when I watched your clip this video came up as related to it:

https://www.youtube.com/v/6Uec85gC7m4

I think it is very interesting and touches on topics that have been discussed on GMG.

[Mandryka]

Speaking of Schmelzer, when I watched your clip this video came up as related to it:

https://www.youtube.com/v/6Uec85gC7m4

I think it is very interesting and touches on topics that have been discussed on GMG.

Yes I saw that a while ago, he's good!

[Mandryka]

I heard The Orlando Consort give a concert of English music yesterday.

The concert rather confirmed my impressions of what they do. Extremely polished singing. Where they work best is in music which is either very quirky or which has an attractive melody. Where the music has less of a hook, they are maybe slightly less charismatic.

What I didn't appreciate from record is that one of their singers is really excellent, with a striking ability to make the words mean something: the tenor Mark Dobell. Maybe he is just much more inspired in  concerts than he is in the studio, or maybe he was just in a good mood last night.

Just as some people find fault in The Tallis Consort for letting their art become dominated by their ravishing sopranos, it would be possible to find fault in The Orlando Consort for letting their art become dominated by their countertenor. Matthew Venner's voice is beautiful, and they let it dominate the ensemble sound a lot of the time. The barytone and second tenor contributions are consistently disappointing.

They introduced the music to the audience before each group of pieces. It became clear that they pride themselves on how they've worked hard to give an interpretation which is true to the composer's intentions. It was also interesting that they became quite defensive about this, where the music is dissonant or angular they kept on saying things like "you may not believe your ears, but we think this is what the composer had in mind."

Oh two amusing things. The first is that Mark Venner really does look like Tintin. And as their voices get deeper, they get older! Is that a coincidence?

[Vinbrulé]

Well, this early music is very early . I find it enchanting .  Particularly the voice of Agnethe Christensen strikes me !  Has she done other recordings with Sequentia ?  But equally noteworthy is the flute of Norbert Rodenkirchen. 

[prémont]

Well, this early music is very early . I find it enchanting .  Particularly the voice of Agnethe Christensen strikes me !  Has she done other recordings with Sequentia ?

One other it seems, which I do not know. But i know her recordings with Alba, and do recommend them:

https://www.discogs.com/artist/1352086-Agnethe-Christensen

[Vinbrulé]

One other it seems, which I do not know. But i know her recordings with Alba, and do recommend them:

https://www.discogs.com/artist/1352086-Agnethe-Christensen

Many thanks.

[Mandryka]

Has anyone heard this one?

[Vinbrulé]

A copy for sale on Discogs , rather expensive , otherwise  :

[Mandryka]

A copy for sale on Discogs , rather expensive , otherwise  :

I must say, listening to the Rhineland harper CD, which I agree is excellent, I'm quite tempted. I'm resisting but only just.

Damn

[Mandryka]

Anyone heard this?

[Mandryka]

Two ideas about early music performance have captured my imagination.

One is a comment by Rebecca Stewart

The principle point of departure is vibration, not sound. (For western-trained singers and instrumentalists, with our preoccupation with the externally-oriented concept of tonal beauty, this concept cannot be sufficiently stressed.) The concentration of the singer/player is on becoming in-tuned with this vibration and of 'playing' with it in perfect harmony with his acoustical surroundings, not on the manipulation of the resultant sound by artificial or contrived means which are at odds with the modality of the music and the space in which the vibration is taking place. Therefore the singer/player can only function optimally within a situation in which he can feel that the vibrations within his body (or instrument) are matched by those of the acoustical conditions of the space in which he is being 'incantated'. In this way he experiences no separation between himself and his surroundings. The preferred surfaces of the space in which the vibrations are elicited are reflective and the dimensions of the space itself are 'in harmony' with them. No chant was ever inspired by supermarket acoustics. Neither, for that matter, by most modern concert halls and many modern churches

And one is by Benjamin Bagby, who after quoting with approval an observation of Craig Wright (Music and Ceremony at Notre Dame of Paris, 500-1550 (Cambridge University Press, 1989)) that " the final architectural form of Notre Dame of Paris took shape in the 17th and 18th centuries, when the medieval choir walls were dismantled, the sanctuary rebuilt, . . .  Accordingly, the present acoustical properties of the church are not the same as those that obtained in the Middle Ages. Not only did the medieval cathedral have a full enclosure around the chancel and sanctuary, but the Parisian clergy of the earlier period furnished their church, especially in the area of the choir, with curtains, tapestries, tents, rugs, banners and paintings, and these materials affected the way in which sound was transferred and perceived." comments

The proscenium format of the modern church has become a kind of concert stage in an open space, but that space is generally not ideal for singing medieval music — it is diffuse and 'muddled'. We have traded the more intimate acoustics — and the mystery — of the hidden medieval choir for the openness and visibility expected by today's listeners.

The mystery of the medieval acoustic that Bagby alludes to, and indeed the sense of the sound of the incantation, the vibe, being in harmony with the acoustics of the space, seems to me to be well captured in this challenging recording from Sequentia, challenging partly because, me, I've edited out some of the spoken word. But IMO it was well worth the effort. And challenging because to hear it for what it is, you need a decent hi-hi, if you don't have that, in my opinion it's best not to bother.



Intimate rapt singing, a great sense of diction, wonderfully expressive instrumentation, evocatively recorded. 

[Vinbrulé]

because to hear it for what it is, you need a decent hi-hi, if you don't have that, in my opinion it's best not to bother.

So, I'm beginning to understand : if I cannot "capture the magic" in the recordings of Schmelzer or Cantus Modalis etc..  perhaps it's not entirely my fault :  I must change my stereo       

[Mandryka]

So, I'm beginning to understand : if I cannot "capture the magic" in the recordings of Schmelzer or Cantus Modalis etc..  perhaps it's not entirely my fault :  I must change my stereo     

It's not a question of capturing the magic, it's a question of capturing the sound. I have come to the conclusion -- the wisdom of experience -- that music in performance is sound. If you can't hear the sounds the artists have made then you perceive what they do through a glass darkly.  In some cases it's not a deal breaker, there's enough going on to make the experience entertaining independently of the sound -- the energy of the pulse, the tension of the counterpoint etc. And even here, there are those things, but less so than in other music. Here, I think, the art of Sequentia is to a very large extent, about sound.

[Muzio]

......Particularly the voice of Agnethe Christensen strikes me !  Has she done other recordings with Sequentia ?....

According to Qobuz, she shows up here, but only on two tracks:

Hildegard von Bingen - "Celestial Hierarchy" - Sequentia
Released by deutsche harmonia mundi on May 9, 2013
10 Tracks • 01h 11m 39s

5. O cohors milicie floris (Antiphon to the Apostles) (With canticum: Benedictus Dominus Deus Israel (V fol. 160v)) (With canticum: Benedictus Dominus Deus Israel (V fol. 160v)
Benjamin Bagby, Conductor
Agnethe Christensen, Vocal
13 min. 45 sec.

10. O vos angeli (Responsory to the Angels) ((V fol. 159)) ((V fol. 159))
Benjamin Bagby, Conductor
Lena Susanne Norin, Vocal
Sabine Lutzenberger, Vocal
Agnethe Christensen, Vocal
Lydia Brotherton, Vocal
Norbert Rodenkirchen, Flute
8 min. 39 sec.
---------------------------------------------
[Edit] She is also featured on this 2-disc set:
Hildegard von Bingen: "Ave Generosa - Mystische Vokalmusic der Mittelalter Ikone"
Agnethe Christensen (et al)
Released by Classico on June 30, 2014

[Mandryka]

And here



and here



I've not heard either of them.

[Que]

And here



and here



I've not heard either of them.

The trendy & stylish covers are very promising! 

Q

[Mandryka]

The trendy & stylish covers are very promising! 

Q

LOL


I'm quite tempted by that Hildegard one and the clips online sound not bad - at least. the singing is interesting. But the cover is really stopping me from buying.

[Florestan]

I'm quite tempted by that Hildegard one and the clips online sound not bad - at least. the singing is interesting. But the cover is really stopping me from buying.

I don't get it at all, at all. If you're into the music and like the samples, why should an effing cover (which you won't be looking at much, anyway) stop you from getting it?

[Mandryka]

I don't get it at all, at all. If you're into the music and like the samples, why should an effing cover (which you won't be looking at much, anyway) stop you from getting it?

You're right of course. The other aspect is that I'm also angry that it's not available for me to stream on qobuz and spotify, so I'm sort of making a protest by not buying it. I'm exercising my power as a consumer to say NO!!!

[Vinbrulé]

You're right of course. The other aspect is that I'm also angry that it's not available for me to stream on qobuz and spotify, so I'm sort of making a protest by not buying it. I'm exercising my power as a consumer to say NO!!!

In this 4cd box there is the Hildegard compilation as well https://open.spotify.com/album/0qcnmCGtYCOOxh1hdl39ck

And this is the price https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Quadromania-Alba-Music-of-The-Middle-Ages-4-CD-Album/1127913054