The Early Music Club (EMC)

Started by zamyrabyrd, October 06, 2007, 10:31:49 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

sul G

Yes, I have that disc too, and agree that it's pleasant but nothing spectacular. I haven't returned to it often, in any case. But I also have some of the ensemble's other Naxos discs - Cominciamento da gioia and On the Way to Bethlehem - and have found them much more invigorating, enjoyable stuff. Naxos also have the Ensemble Accentus (the two work together on one disc) and I think that their disc of Sephardic music is a real winner. It was a disc which really turned me on to much of this music, in any case. I much prefer its infectious delights to, for instance, the similar twofer of Savall/Figueras/Herperion XX, even if the latter is more lavishly packaged and presented as a luxury item.

canninator

Quote from: Spitvalve on February 18, 2009, 09:34:01 PM
A better word is "non-existent." Most early instrumental music does not specify instrumentation, so you can arrange it any way you want.

Supposedly the first piece that specifies instrumentation is Gabrieli's Sonata pian' e forte (1597).

Do you mean specified instrumentation with a vocal score? Of course there are many printed instrumental sources that predate this for lute (from 1507 I think) and keyboard e.g. Frottole intabulate da sonare organi (Antico 1517). Even earlier there are vocal scores that unambiguously imply instrumental accompaniment e.g. Adieu ces bons vins de Lanny (Dufay ?1426) where the score starts 4 bars (modern mensuration) before the text.

The comment was made that "early" music was predominantly vocal as opposed to instrumental. Although it is true to say that what comes down to us in printed sources is vocal scoring it is best not to forget the huge importance of instrumental music during this period. There are very few sources for how instruments were taught and even fewer examples of pedagogical music but illuminated miniatures in a variety of texts (even antiphons as I recall) demonstrate (at best) or suggest (at worst) that instrumental accompaniment was integral to music of the period. The instruments could improvise over the vocal line or even take the role of tenor or contratenor in a three part vocal score.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: canninator on February 19, 2009, 01:05:38 AM
Do you mean specified instrumentation with a vocal score? Of course there are many printed instrumental sources that predate this for lute (from 1507 I think) and keyboard e.g. Frottole intabulate da sonare organi (Antico 1517). Even earlier there are vocal scores that unambiguously imply instrumental accompaniment e.g. Adieu ces bons vins de Lanny (Dufay ?1426) where the score starts 4 bars (modern mensuration) before the text.

I'm talking about multi-instrumental music, not vocal scores or single-instrument stuff like keyboard music.

In e.g. the instrumental compositions of composers like Schein, Scheidt, Praetorius, Gabrieli or the like, instrumentation is usually flexible. I've heard sometimes the same piece realized by all-brass ensemble, or all-viol ensemble, or a mix of different types of instruments. Composers generally didn't specify, although we can sometimes make assumptions from other known facts. For instance, it's known that the permanent ensemble of St. Mark's when Gabrieli was there consisted mainly of cornetts and sackbuts (early brass), so it's a fair assumption that Gabrieli had a brass-dominated ensemble in mind for his canzonas.

There are some pieces of that time, though, that do specify the instruments to be used. Sonata pian' e forte is one; another is Massaino's Canzona for 8 Trombones.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

canninator

Quote from: Spitvalve on February 19, 2009, 01:27:48 AM
I'm talking about multi-instrumental music, not vocal scores or single-instrument stuff like keyboard music.

In e.g. the instrumental compositions of composers like Schein, Scheidt, Praetorius, Gabrieli or the like, instrumentation is usually flexible. I've heard sometimes the same piece realized by all-brass ensemble, or all-viol ensemble, or a mix of different types of instruments. Composers generally didn't specify, although we can sometimes make assumptions from other known facts. For instance, it's known that the permanent ensemble of St. Mark's when Gabrieli was there consisted mainly of cornetts and sackbuts (early brass), so it's a fair assumption that Gabrieli had a brass-dominated ensemble in mind for his canzonas.

There are some pieces of that time, though, that do specify the instruments to be used. Sonata pian' e forte is one; another is Massaino's Canzona for 8 Trombones.

Okay, I see. I Know that "Instrumental Music Printed Before 1600" (Harvard University Press) is pretty much the standard source for this stuff but I don't have it to hand so can't comment further (not that I'm disagreeing with you but specifically lute ensembles-most notably duos-certainly predate 1597 if that counts).

bwv 1080

Quote from: Spitvalve on February 18, 2009, 09:34:01 PM
A better word is "non-existent." Most early instrumental music does not specify instrumentation, so you can arrange it any way you want.

Supposedly the first piece that specifies instrumentation is Gabrieli's Sonata pian' e forte (1597).

There is a Vihuela literature from the earlier

El Maestro by Luis de Milán (1536)
Los seys libros del Delphin by Luis de Narváez (1538)
Tres Libros de Música by Alonso Mudarra (1546)
Silva de sirenas by Enríquez de Valderrábano (1547)
Libro de música de Vihuela by Diego Pisador (1552)
Orphénica Lyra by Miguel de Fuenllana (1554)
El Parnasso by Estevan Daça (1576).

http://www.youtube.com/v/iYOFviCC7DA

canninator

Quote from: bwv 1080 on February 19, 2009, 04:32:26 AM
There is a Vihuela literature from the earlier

El Maestro by Luis de Milán (1536)
Los seys libros del Delphin by Luis de Narváez (1538)
Tres Libros de Música by Alonso Mudarra (1546)
Silva de sirenas by Enríquez de Valderrábano (1547)
Libro de música de Vihuela by Diego Pisador (1552)
Orphénica Lyra by Miguel de Fuenllana (1554)
El Parnasso by Estevan Daça (1576).


Co-incidentally La Cancion del Emperador (actually a rearrangement of Mille Regrets by Josquin) is a piece I'm polishing up myself at the moment. I love the Vihuela repertoire and am really fortunate in that I have access to the Pujol editions of the Milan (both volumes) and the Narvaez, among others. Pisador, however, I find a bit dry and academic.

Anyone who wants to play through some of these can probably get them online for free or the best are available in a Pujol edited anthology "Hispanae Citharae Ars Viva" that includes Pisador-Pavana muy llana, Villanesca; Valderrabano-Soneto I & II; Milan-Fantasia del quarto tono, Fantasia de consonancias y redobles; Mudarra-Gallarda, Diferencias Conde Claros, Fantsia de Ludovico; Narvaez-Cancion del Emperador, Baxa de contrapunto, Diferencias Guardame las Vacas, and Tres diferencias por otra parte.

As for recordings, well Hopkinson Smith has done quite a lot of vihuela repertoire and is really the benchmark but I'll always have a soft spot for this

http://www.youtube.com/v/Upd8HJxYeb0

Superb!!

Drasko

What's with Gesualdo's 6th book of madrigals? I intended to ask here for recommendation but it seems there is only one recording available, and that rather recent looking one by ensemble I never heard of. Am I missing something?




Dr. Dread

Quote from: Drasko on February 19, 2009, 02:11:15 PM
What's with Gesualdo's 6th book of madrigals? I intended to ask here for recommendation but it seems there is only one recording available, and that rather recent looking one by ensemble I never heard of. Am I missing something?



This might be why...Regarding that recording: "This release completes the hugely successful cycle of choral music by Gesualdo, the first project of this music to be completed in 40 years."

If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years?

I can find bits of book six compiled with others, but not a whole volume like you show. I checked for about 20 minutes at several online locations.

Dr. Dread

Quote from: George on February 19, 2009, 05:53:10 PM
When will the membership cards be sent out, Dave? There's a Renaissance fair coming to town soon and I'd ike to use the card to get 20% on afternoon jousting.  ;D

Ah, Renaissance fairs, with the turkey legs, the juggling and the bad British accents.  ;D

Coopmv

#169
Some of the recent additions to my collection.  I expect to add 30-50 titles of early music (all pre-baroque) to my collection this year ...



Here are some older recordings that have been in my collection for a while.

I wonder that conductor Ratzinger may be related to Pope Benedict?

Drasko

Quote from: Mn Dave on February 19, 2009, 05:45:11 PM
This might be why...Regarding that recording: "This release completes the hugely successful cycle of choral music by Gesualdo, the first project of this music to be completed in 40 years."

If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years?

I can find bits of book six compiled with others, but not a whole volume like you show. I checked for about 20 minutes at several online locations.

I'm not the most knowledgable person here when it comes to madrigals, but I think that quote means that no one has recorded the complete cycle in last 40 years, not that it took them 40 years.

Anyhow, it really looks like that is only choice for complete 6th book (there are at least two choices per any other of books 1-5).
Glossa site claims La Venexiana is planning whole cycle, but their concert schedule for 2009 has no Gesualdo at all (Buxtehude and Monteverdi mostly) and that is usualy good hint for recording plans.
At least Les Arts Florissants/Christie Gesualdo disc with mixed selection is scheduled for re-release on Harmonia Mundi Gold series next month, was oop and fetching silly prices on amazon.

 

Dr. Dread

Quote from: Drasko on February 20, 2009, 05:22:37 AM
I'm not the most knowledgable person here when it comes to madrigals, but I think that quote means that no one has recorded the complete cycle in last 40 years, not that it took them 40 years.

Heh. That's what I meant.

"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to record another]?"

Dr. Dread

Quote from: Drasko on February 20, 2009, 05:22:37 AM
At least Les Arts Florissants/Christie Gesualdo disc with mixed selection is scheduled for re-release on Harmonia Mundi Gold series next month, was oop and fetching silly prices on amazon.

 


Great. I hate silly prices.

Drasko

Quote from: Mn Dave on February 20, 2009, 05:26:37 AM
Heh. That's what I meant.

"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to record another]?"


Sorry. I thought you meant:

"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to finish it]?"

My english comprehension isn't always up to much.

Dr. Dread

Quote from: Drasko on February 20, 2009, 05:34:58 AM
Sorry. I thought you meant:

"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to finish it]?"

My english comprehension isn't always up to much.

Mine neither. ;)

Que

Quote from: Drasko on February 19, 2009, 02:11:15 PM
What's with Gesualdo's 6th book of madrigals? I intended to ask here for recommendation but it seems there is only one recording available, and that rather recent looking one by ensemble I never heard of. Am I missing something?

Here is one other: by the Quintetto Vocale Italiano on Rivo Alto. Old recordings (early '60s), and judging from this comment not very HIP, not worthwhile.



But note that La Venexiana is working on a cycle as well - Books IV & V issued:



I have the recording of Book V: very impressive, catches the fascinating but disturbing quality of the music admirably.

Don't know the Kassiopeia Quintet, but it can't be bad - they're Dutch!  ;D ;)

Q

Coopmv

Quote from: Drasko on February 20, 2009, 05:34:58 AM
Sorry. I thought you meant:

"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to finish it]?"

My english comprehension isn't always up to much.

We should be happy that we can still find recordings of these works.  After all, these recordings do not exactly win any popularity contests ...

Coopmv

#177
I bought this set a few months ago ...


Drasko

Quote from: Que on February 21, 2009, 04:36:33 AM
Here is one other: by the Quintetto Vocale Italiano on Rivo Alto. Old recordings (early '60s), and judging from this comment not very HIP, not worthwhile.

Thanks! I'll check it out anyhow.

QuoteBut note that La Venexiana is working on a cycle as well - Books IV & V issued:

Working perhaps, but the progress is snail like. Wasn't their Book V recorded something like 4-5 years ago?

QuoteDon't know the Kassiopeia Quintet, but it can't be bad - they're Dutch!  ;D ;)

Well, only 2/5 Dutch, but they do sound ok to my untrained ears. Maybe someone more versed in this type of music could provide better observation, since they offer few decent quality samples at their website.
http://www.kassiopeiaquintet.com/index.php?17

Coopmv

Quote from: Que on February 21, 2009, 11:36:04 PM
Would you care to make a comment on it? :)

Q

This John Dowland Collected Works is a box set of 12 CD's which were previously released from the lately 70's through the 80's.  I think the music is excellent and as always, Emma Kirkby provides some exquisite singing ...