The Early Music Club (EMC)

Started by zamyrabyrd, October 06, 2007, 10:31:49 PM

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The new erato

http://www.hoasm.org/IID/IIDArsNovaFrance.html

•Franciscus Andrieu (?Magister Franciscus)
•Baralipton
•Chassa
•Bernard de Cluny
•Jehan de Villeroye [Briquet]
•Grimace
•Jehannot de l'Escurel
•Johannes (Jean) de Muris
•Guillaume de Machaut
•Pierre des Molins
•Petrus de Cruce [Pierre de la Croix]
•Jean Vaillant
•Philippe de Vitry


chasmaniac

Quote from: The new erato on April 04, 2011, 08:46:30 AM
http://www.hoasm.org/IID/IIDArsNovaFrance.html

•Franciscus Andrieu (?Magister Franciscus)
•Baralipton
•Chassa
•Bernard de Cluny
•Jehan de Villeroye [Briquet]
•Grimace
•Jehannot de l'Escurel
•Johannes (Jean) de Muris
•Guillaume de Machaut
•Pierre des Molins
•Petrus de Cruce [Pierre de la Croix]
•Jean Vaillant
•Philippe de Vitry

That's a good article, thanks. It's striking how little music survives by most of these people. Having been shocked and amazed by Machaut, I was hoping to find a wealth of secular polyphony just like his. Not to be, I reckon. I have some Vitry, Landini and Ciconia on the way though. They might scratch the itch!
If I have exhausted the justifications, I have reached bedrock and my spade is turned. Then I am inclined to say: "This is simply what I do."  --Wittgenstein, PI §217

Que

Quote from: Sid on May 23, 2011, 05:50:16 PM
Antoine BRUMEL
Mass for 12 voices, "Et Ecce Terrae Motus" (with three organs and brass accompaniment)
Dominique Visse (Conductor), Ensemble Clément Janequin, Les Sacqueboutiers de Toulouse
Harmonia Mundi
[...]

These two masses are really different, but both are great. I borrowed the Brumel from the library & hadn't heard it in 15 years. He was a Renaissance composer whose dates are c.1460 - 1515. He started his career as a choirboy at Chartres Cathedral and ended it working conducting a choir in Italy. This mass is his most significant work, and both in terms of the large forces used and the length and complexity of the work, nothing can match it from that time except Tallis' Spem in alium (a masterpiece that I haven't heard yet). Complexity is the word with this work. Some parts come across as a "wall of sound" (like the music of Brumel's teacher Josquin des Prez), but Brumel also builds things up gradually for maximum effect. Take the concluding Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) which is in three parts. The first is choir only, in the second the brass comes in, and in the third the organs. It's one of the most amazing climaxes you're likely to ever hear. It's certainly just as sophisticated (if not more) as anything I've heard from more contemporary composers. I'm actually amazed at how Brumel could get this all down on the page, all of this complexity (I mean - THREE organs!). It's simply staggering. This work was published in the 1500's & we are lucky to have a full copy of the score. This work remained popular even after Brumel's death - the great Lassus, a composer of the next generation, was to direct a number of performances of it in Germany.
[...]

[asin]B00009EPFF[/asin]

I love Sid's write ups - fresh first impressions of musical dicoveries. I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him to save it here! :) And hope his enthousiasm will inspire others to explore.

Q

Que

#263
Quote from: Sid on May 25, 2011, 10:39:20 PM
Thanks very much for that also. It's good to have some members here who are really clued up about this area of early classical. I am only familiar with the names Brumel & Lasso (Lasssus) on the track listing. I'm highly impressed by the Brumel mass for 12 voices, as I have talked about previously. I haven't heard about the other pieces/composers. Are the other items on this set highly regarded parts of the repertoire of that time? Are they generally representative of the eras? Basically is this set a good introduction or kind of "launchpad" into this repertoire for newcomers like myself? I'm kind of looking less for "definitive" performances, I'm more interested in "defining" works of those times...


Sid, Van Nevel is known for seeking out music of quality which is in many cases lesser known. So, this set can work as both a perfect starter kit as well as an important addition to an existing Early Music collection. For me it worked as something in between but mainly as a huge eye opener.
No big names like Machaut, Dufay, Desprez or Victoria, but still highly significant and hugely rewarding music - I assure you! :) Van Nevel's main focus is on the Franco-Flemish repertoire, and he is in that field second to none IMO, but he also explores in this set music from the Iberian peninsula and Italy.

I'm taking the opportunity to execute an old plan: revisiting the whole set from start to finish and posting my impressions.

 

The Las Huelgas Codex (Wiki on the Codex.) gave the ensemble its name and is appropriately place d 1st in the set. What can I say in addition to David Vernier's comment below, which is very  to the point IMO, other than I was amazed how interesting and touching music that early could be. The performance is more than perfect: Van Nevel succeeds in turning old manuscripts in music of real flesh and blood, full of emotion combined with absolutely musically perfect execution - absolutely rock steady, transparant and immaculate singing.

Just how engaging, catchy, lively, and artful can 13th century Spanish music be? Very, as evidenced by this collection of motets, conductus, mass movements, and strophic songs from the legendary manuscript compiled at the 12th-century Cistercian convent at Las Huelgas. This remarkable program, highlighting only a handful of the nearly 200 works contained in the original manuscript, shows not only the beauty and inventiveness of sacred music of this period, but also how colorful and varied it could be. And just how well sung and played is it? Impressively, as shown by these five exceptional female voices and period instrumentalists from the superb Huelgas Ensemble. Instruments--recorders, fiddles, rebec, and percussion--are sparingly and effectively used, and the singers treat us to exciting yet rarely heard ornamentation, an ancient art that sounds eerily modern. [David Vernier on Amazon]

Q

Que

#264
 

As an introduction a small blurp about the background of this music (more HERE and HERE):

At the end of the fourteenth century—amidst war, famine, and religious division—an extraordinary musical society flourished in southern France. Nurtured in the courts of wealthy lords, the music of this society reflected and contributed to the prestige of the upper-class society. In this style, now known as the Ars subtilior (the more subtle art), highly trained poet-musicians wrote and performed complex music for the entertainment of an elite, highly cultured audience. Many pieces written at this time were dedicated to specific patrons, celebrating their achievements. One of the principle patrons of this music was Gaston Febus III, count of Foix and Béarn, two small but wealthy territories in southern France.

This 2nd disc is one of my favourites of the set, if that is possible with such a wealth of first rate recordings. :) As a personal note to the excellent review below, I must say it is absolutely fascinating music, sounding surprisingly modern in the way it feels free from convention, unusual and very expressive. If members can make me recommedations of similar recordings I would be most obliged! :)

QuoteThis is a highly distinctive record, in which each piece is approached in a different way, most are approached in a novel way, and everything seems to work very well. Paul van Nevel and his musicians have attacked the bizarre music of the late fourteenth century with spirit and originality: nobody seems to know how this music should have sounded, but every performance here undeniably brings out important qualities in the music.

Van Nevel's first surprise is to use a choir of six women to sing the top line of Le Mont Aon, normally thought of as a solo song; then he performs the first stanza with just these plus a trombone on the tenor line, adding the third voice (on a vielle) only for the later stanzas. This actually keeps the ear alive through over 12 minutes of intricate music. And he brings a similar surprise for the last piece, Cuvelier's Se Galaas, where he has just his women singing on all three voices, with a hardedged and direct tone that brings out the dissonances and rhythms with a wonderful clarity: you really get the excitement of the battle-cry "Febus avant" that opens the refrain. For the songs by Trebor and Solage, he uses just three male voices, again with splendidly convincing results, I think, though some listeners may disagree: in any case, Solage's Fumeux fume is one of the strangest pieces ever written, with its weird dissonances and very low texture (treated here literally), so the sound is a little strange whatever you do to it. Again, the point here is that Van Nevel approaches it in a new way and brings new qualities out of the work. Two of the motets are performed twice through, first with only one of the upper voices sung, so that the listener can grapple with the details by stages. And the canonic Tres doux compains is done as an instrumental piece for three delicioussounding tenor recorders, bringing out many musical details that would be lost if it was sung.

I think this may be the kind of record you could give to people unfamiliar with medieval music in the confident expectation that they would enjoy it and that the performances gave a responsible account of what is in the music.
D.F [Gramophone]

Q

haydnguy

Que, I'm just starting back with my listening also. Your more qualified to do the commentary but you might want to mention which disk in the set it is. I JUST started Disk 6 for the first listen which was:


Que

#266
Quote from: haydnguy on May 29, 2011, 01:26:20 AM
Que, I'm just starting back with my listening also.

Check (2nd). :)

QuoteYour more qualified to do the commentary but you might want to mention which disk in the set it is.

Oh no, not at all - please pitch in!  :)

I'm sure those here are that a really in the know (a.o. premont, Josquin Desprez, Jochanaan, lethe, Drasko) will step in when necessary to correct us. :D

Q

haydnguy

Currently finishing up my second listen of Disk 8. This set is an excellent set if anyone likes this kind of music. A good value for the money I believe.


haydnguy

Quote from: Coopmv on February 13, 2010, 04:58:47 AM
Q,  Here is a nice one I have by the famed Tallis Scholars ...



I also have another 6 volumes by The Clerks' Group/Wickham on the English? label Gaudeamus ...

Thanks, coopmv! I've added the Tallis Scholar disk to my cart.  8)

haydnguy

#269
Moving on to Disk 9 of the set. I want to mention that these are available as individual issues but the set is such a good value that the indiviual CD's are quite expensive in comparison.


chasmaniac

Quote from: ~ Que ~ on May 28, 2011, 11:49:25 PMIf members can make me recommedations of similar recordings I would be most obliged! :)

Great series of posts, please keep them coming. I've plunked for the box. Re. ars subtilior recordings, here are a few:

Ars Magis Subtiliter: Music of the Chantilly Codex (1), New Albion  21
-- Ensemble P.A.N.
Codex Chantilly: Ballades & Rondeaux (1), Harmonia Mundi  1951252
-- Marcel Pérès, Ensemble Organum
Corps Femenin: L'Avant Garde de Jean Duc de Berry (1), Arcana  355
-- Crawford Young, Ferrara Ensemble
and the Solage half of
The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut (1), Avie  2089
-- Gothic Voices

If I have exhausted the justifications, I have reached bedrock and my spade is turned. Then I am inclined to say: "This is simply what I do."  --Wittgenstein, PI §217

Coopmv

#271
Quote from: haydnguy on May 31, 2011, 02:37:53 AM
Moving on to Disk 9 of the set. I want to mention that these are available as individual issues but the set is such a good value that the indiviual CD's are quite expensive in comparison.



Isn't this set currently unavailable on Amazon? 

Coopmv

Here is a 4-CD set I purchased a few weeks ago that I have quite enjoyed.  It is also quite attractively priced as a box set ...




Que

#273
Quote from: chasmaniac on May 31, 2011, 04:40:32 AM
Great series of posts, please keep them coming. I've plunked for the box. Re. ars subtilior recordings, here are a few:

Ars Magis Subtiliter: Music of the Chantilly Codex (1), New Albion  21
-- Ensemble P.A.N.
Codex Chantilly: Ballades & Rondeaux (1), Harmonia Mundi  1951252
-- Marcel Pérès, Ensemble Organum
Corps Femenin: L'Avant Garde de Jean Duc de Berry (1), Arcana  355
-- Crawford Young, Ferrara Ensemble
and the Solage half of
The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut (1), Avie  2089
-- Gothic Voices

Thanks, and I will post on each and every one of the discs! :o :D

And much obliged for the wonderful suggestions - thank you! :)

Quote from: Coopmv on May 31, 2011, 06:13:23 AM
Isn't this set currently unavailable on Amazon?

David is referring to this set, that you already have, if I'm not mistaken? :) :

[asin]B00205RKMO[/asin]

Q

Coopmv

Quote from: ~ Que ~ on May 31, 2011, 09:51:52 AM
David is referring to this set, that you already have, if I'm not mistaken? :) :

[asin]B00205RKMO[/asin]

For Europeans: price at jpc is now down to €30 - click here! :)

Q

Absolutely.  I was among the first 2 or 3 members of this forum to get this set.  But this set is still available unless David is looking for a previous incarnation of this set.

Also I noticed a different CD cover and thereby created the confusion ...

haydnguy

Moving on to Disk 10. This set is not going to be far away from arms length for a long time!


chasmaniac

Quote from: haydnguy on June 01, 2011, 01:20:41 AM
Moving on to Disk 10. This set is not going to be far away from arms length for a long time!


This is from a Gramophone review of disc #1 from the set.

Van Nevel is easily as eccentric as Agricola ever was, and while the singers of the Huelgas Ensemble cope admirably with even his most bizarre directions, some ideas seem to be almost beyond the pale. He claims that fully vocal performance of the instrumental music is at least plausible. In the case of the six-voice Fortuna desperata (now, with at least four recordings, a staple of the Agricola repertoire) one can hardly disagree, but to hear the soprano clambering up two-and-a-half octaves in semiquavers (Dung aultre amet) forces admiration and disbelief in equal measure... The amazing thing is that the singers' sheer athleticism and musicality lends such dotty notions an air of plausibility. More than that, they confirm the growing perception of Agricola as a composer of the very first rank. I have no hesitation in singling out [this recording] among this year's high points.

What do you make of this? Is it just a hangover from the old debate Christopher Page and company had about the vocalization of non-texted music? Aside from, and in my opinion more important than, the question of plausibility, how does it sound? Is it juicy? Is it sweet?
If I have exhausted the justifications, I have reached bedrock and my spade is turned. Then I am inclined to say: "This is simply what I do."  --Wittgenstein, PI §217

Que

#277


The music on this 3rd disc of the set has an amazing background:

The French noble family De Lusignan came in possesion of the island of Cyprus after Guy de Lusignan, King of Jerusalem, bought it. Hence a French court on Cyprus, importing the French musical tradition and it became later a centre for the Ars Subtilior style. More on this HERE.

Cultural life reached its heights during the reign of King Janus. Janus's daughter Anna upon her marriage to Louis of Savoy, Count of Geneva, took with her a thick manuscript, written between 1413 and 1426, The Savoys later became kings of Italy and the manuscript ended up in the collection of the National Library of Turin, Italy. It consists of 159 folios containing over two hundred polyphonic compositions both sacred and secular.

This disc with a selection from the Turin manuscript did not impres me the most, nice, but sounds a bit off. Not the WOW factor of the Febus disc, it has beautiful moments but in general comes across as languid and not really engaging.

Researching the disc, this review from Gramophone explains why:

This is the oddest record I have heard in a long time. Paul van Nevel has always been a maverick, an unpredictable figure whose approach can seem, depending on your viewpoint, either astonishingly bold or thoroughly bizarre.
For a few years now the idea has been floating round—apparently pioneered by Ephraim Segerman, a courageous figure who refuses to let subjective musical judgements cloud his pursuit of logic—that we perform all our medieval and renaissance music several times too fast. It's a theory based on surviving documents but hard to believe. Anyway, Paul van Nevel here tries it out. The ballade "Si doulcement me fait amours vrais amans lasts" over 19 minutes, when it would normally last about seven minutes; needless to say that the words are entirely lost, though some passing dissonances become wonderful, long-drawn out scrunches; it's a very strange piece anyway. Just a single stanza of the ballade Si doulchement mon ceur lasts nearly six minutes; and thank heavens he didn't record the other two stanzas, because he has also chosen to pitch it so extraordinarily low that even the formidable Harry van der Kamp cannot hold the notes steadily and even the nonpareil Marius van Altena fails to keep the line moving: the sound is to my ears thoroughly and irredeemably unpleasant.
For the motet Personet armonia he chooses an ensemble of shawm and two trombones, but with a sopranino recorder doubling the tenor at the interval of two and a half octaves. Again, the theory of the thing seems easy to see, derived from organ registration; but organs are carefully balanced and good organists judge their registration by using their ears, which nobody seems to have done here (though I say 'seems' because the producer, Wolf Erichson, is probably the most experienced man in the business, world-wide).
On the other hand, the Gloria and the Credo sound wonderful: lucid, flowing, well balanced and above all full of vital musicianship. One explanation might be that in these pieces Paul van Nevel had just slipped out for a drink and left the singers to get on with it; but, on balance, I suspect that he is reminding us that he really can produce a musical performance along more accepted lines. Strictly for die-hard enthusiasts, then, or for those intrigued by the far-out. DF


So, Van Nevel took some eccentric decisions on the matter of tempo.  ::) :) I like the daring attitude and often, as will be evident in the rest of the set, it pays off. But maybe not quite so in this instance.

I definitely do like to hear more from the Cypriotic Turin manscript - Suggestions are welcome! :)
Van Nevel did another disc - see below - anyone able to comment on that? :)



Q

chasmaniac

#278
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on June 02, 2011, 12:30:05 AM
I definitely do like to hear more form the Cypriotic Turin manscript
Q

Ensemble P.A.N. is always solid and this disc is no exception:
The Island of St. Hylarion: Music of Cyprus 1413-22 (1), New Albion 38

If I have exhausted the justifications, I have reached bedrock and my spade is turned. Then I am inclined to say: "This is simply what I do."  --Wittgenstein, PI §217

Que

#279
Quote from: chasmaniac on June 02, 2011, 02:22:54 AM
Ensemble P.A.N. is always solid and this disc is no exception:
The Island of St. Hylarion: Music of Cyprus 1413-22 (1), New Albion 38



Thanks, much appreciated! :)

Quote from: chasmaniac on June 01, 2011, 04:38:20 AM
This is from a Gramophone review of disc #1 from the set.

What do you make of this? Is it just a hangover from the old debate Christopher Page and company had about the vocalization of non-texted music? Aside from, and in my opinion more important than, the question of plausibility, how does it sound? Is it juicy? Is it sweet?



The Agricola disc (which is disc 5) is one of the highlights of the set. So I agree with that review - a great disc. :) Definitely juicy, as for sweet - I generally do not associate that with the Huelgas Ensembles' style, wich is more on the clear-cut and earthy side.

Q