Author Topic: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?  (Read 887 times)

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Offline rmihai

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Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« on: November 16, 2019, 07:06:16 AM »
Sony released the 1st Bernstein-Mahler cycle on vinyl ...

"Sony Classical is now releasing Bernstein's legendary recordings of the complete Mahler Symphonies with the New York Philharmonic and the London Symphony Orchestra (plus the Kindertotenlieder with Jennie Tourel and Janet Baker) on LP, the format these recordings were made for, on 180-gram audiophile vinyl."

Leonard Bernstein-Mahler Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition-Vinyl Box Sets|Acoustic Sounds

I did not have a chance, yet, to hear those on CD either ... Nevertheless

1. What do you think about these recordings?

2. What should I expect from the mastering and pressing? (Mastered and pressed at MPO International, France)

Thank you!

Offline Irons

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2019, 12:55:05 PM »
Sony released the 1st Bernstein-Mahler cycle on vinyl ...

"Sony Classical is now releasing Bernstein's legendary recordings of the complete Mahler Symphonies with the New York Philharmonic and the London Symphony Orchestra (plus the Kindertotenlieder with Jennie Tourel and Janet Baker) on LP, the format these recordings were made for, on 180-gram audiophile vinyl."

Leonard Bernstein-Mahler Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition-Vinyl Box Sets|Acoustic Sounds

I did not have a chance, yet, to hear those on CD either ... Nevertheless

1. What do you think about these recordings?

2. What should I expect from the mastering and pressing? (Mastered and pressed at MPO International, France)

Thank you!

If anything like recent reissues on vinyl this set will be expensive. There is one key question: Are the transfers derived from an analogue or digital source? Most are digital in which case I believe CD to be the sensible option.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline rmihai

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2019, 12:59:27 PM »
If anything like recent reissues on vinyl this set will be expensive. There is one key question: Are the transfers derived from an analogue or digital source? Most are digital in which case I believe CD to be the sensible option.

Irons - hmm ... you got me here ... exactly what I was thinking and what I am afraid of ... I am a vinyl guy ... but many of these new re-releases are just not worth it - as they simply are digital transfers to vinyl ... hence my original question ... Which is still open !

Offline Daverz

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2019, 01:10:12 PM »
I recommend this box with the 2009 Andreas K. Meyer remasters:




Offline rmihai

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2019, 01:21:54 PM »
I recommend this box with the 2009 Andreas K. Meyer remasters:



Interesting - never listen to those re-masters ... As they are 2009 ... barely 24/96 was around for digital re-mastering ... Nowadays they are even doing DSD1024 !!! I have no idea what they used in the mastering of the new vinyl series ... And I know what you will say - that the way is mastered is more important than the resolution  - and yes I am with you on this. ut I am still hopping to hear from people that got/have this 2017 release.

Any thoughts appreciated !

Offline Daverz

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2019, 02:27:32 PM »
Interesting - never listen to those re-masters ... As they are 2009 ... barely 24/96 was around for digital re-mastering ... Nowadays they are even doing DSD1024 !!! I have no idea what they used in the mastering of the new vinyl series ... And I know what you will say - that the way is mastered is more important than the resolution  - and yes I am with you on this. ut I am still hopping to hear from people that got/have this 2017 release.

Any thoughts appreciated !

24/96 mastering has been standard since the 90s.  For example, the Decca Legends and DG Originals issues.

The 2009 remaster went back to the session tapes.  See http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=213113 for some reviews.

That said, these old pre-Dolby tapes do not come near to exceeding the dynamic range and bandwidth of standard CD.

Offline rmihai

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2019, 04:43:42 PM »
24/96 mastering has been standard since the 90s.  For example, the Decca Legends and DG Originals issues.


Man -- I had no idea ... I always assumed 24/96 was introduced first in Dec 1996...!!! And only in very few places and mastering...

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2019, 02:37:58 AM »
24/96 mastering has been standard since the 90s.  For example, the Decca Legends and DG Originals issues.

Man -- I had no idea ... I always assumed 24/96 was introduced first in Dec 1996...!!! And only in very few places and mastering...

I expect you're both right.  I don't think 24/96 was around in the early '90s.  I was just yesterday reading the booklet from an early DG '4D' recording (dated 1992) and that used a 21-bit process.

Re. the Bernstein remasters - by all accounts they are very worthwhile and I do have a couple myself, including his wonderful Mahler 3rd - yes the original tape master is the limiting factor (and how many of these are still in pristine condition?) but the point is that early digital transfers (by CBS, Decca and many others) were not always 100% successful, there has been a learning process since the '80s which probably counts for more than mere technological number-crunching.

Offline rmihai

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2019, 05:21:55 AM »

Re. the Bernstein remasters - by all accounts they are very worthwhile and I do have a couple myself, including his wonderful Mahler 3rd - yes the original tape master is the limiting factor (and how many of these are still in pristine condition?) but the point is that early digital transfers (by CBS, Decca and many others) were not always 100% successful, there has been a learning process since the '80s which probably counts for more than mere technological number-crunching.

Thank you Frankie.

Offline Irons

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2019, 06:01:01 AM »
Interesting - never listen to those re-masters ... As they are 2009 ... barely 24/96 was around for digital re-mastering ... Nowadays they are even doing DSD1024 !!! I have no idea what they used in the mastering of the new vinyl series ... And I know what you will say - that the way is mastered is more important than the resolution  - and yes I am with you on this. ut I am still hopping to hear from people that got/have this 2017 release.

Any thoughts appreciated !

Returning to the original point. If re-mastered in the digital domain no matter what the number-crunchers what is the point of vinyl? Analogue is different then digital, not better, just different. The whole point of vinyl is analogue sound. If digital then a complete waste of time and more importantly, money. Go for the CD or download.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline rmihai

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2019, 06:40:06 AM »
Irons,

Thank you....  I will get the CDs ... much less expensive ...

Idea is that I am not sure if I should go for Bernstein series or for the Rattle




Offline Daverz

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2019, 07:30:37 AM »
Man -- I had no idea ... I always assumed 24/96 was introduced first in Dec 1996...!!! And only in very few places and mastering...

Yeah, the late 90s.

Offline rmihai

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2019, 07:06:02 AM »
I ended getting the Mahler: Symphonies 1-9 with Valery Gergiev & London Symphony Orchestra.

24/96 download.

I am very happy with the sound quality !

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2019, 10:29:39 AM »
I’m surprised you went with the Gergiev, tbh. I think he’s one of the worse Mahler conductors I’ve heard. He doesn’t really demonstrate an understanding of the Mahlerian ethos.
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Offline rmihai

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2019, 10:44:07 AM »
I’m surprised you went with the Gergiev, tbh. I think he’s one of the worse Mahler conductors I’ve heard. He doesn’t really demonstrate an understanding of the Mahlerian ethos.

Yeah - I hear you - certainly not one of the best interpretations by far ... but the sound quality is mesmerizing ... And the price was trivial.

As in regards Mahler Symphonies ... I decided I will be better off to get individual Symphonies eg No. 3 - Haitink; No. 1 & 4 & 9- Fischer. Actually I think Fischer is what I would like as a set - except there is none ! Otherwise I will keep an eye on the Rattle set ....

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2019, 11:31:12 AM »
Yeah - I hear you - certainly not one of the best interpretations by far ... but the sound quality is mesmerizing ... And the price was trivial.

As in regards Mahler Symphonies ... I decided I will be better off to get individual Symphonies eg No. 3 - Haitink; No. 1 & 4 & 9- Fischer. Actually I think Fischer is what I would like as a set - except there is none ! Otherwise I will keep an eye on the Rattle set ....

Have you heard any of Abbado’s or Tennstedt’s Mahler? For me, they’re much better than Rattle. Haitink has some fine recordings --- his first recording of the 3rd is highly acclaimed. I haven’t heard much from Fischer, but I imagine his recordings are quite good. I think the reason there hasn’t been a box set featuring his recordings could possibly stem from the fact that he hasn’t recorded the 8th yet.
“When a man is in despair, it means that he still believes in something.” - Dmitri Shostakovich

Offline rmihai

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2019, 12:56:34 PM »
Have you heard any of Abbado’s or Tennstedt’s Mahler? For me, they’re much better than Rattle. Haitink has some fine recordings --- his first recording of the 3rd is highly acclaimed. I haven’t heard much from Fischer, but I imagine his recordings are quite good. I think the reason there hasn’t been a box set featuring his recordings could possibly stem from the fact that he hasn’t recorded the 8th yet.

No - I did not - I will look into them. As I prefer Abbado over Rattle. I was just not aware of his recordings...


Thank you very much!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 01:07:32 PM by rmihai »

Offline Daverz

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2019, 01:05:24 PM »
Now that you have a set, I would suggest collecting the symphonies one at a time, taking your time with each selection.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Bernstein Conducts Mahler-The Vinyl Edition ?
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2019, 01:48:59 PM »
No - I did not - I will look into them. As I prefer Abbado over Rattle. I was just not aware of his recordings...


Thank you very much!

My pleasure. :)
“When a man is in despair, it means that he still believes in something.” - Dmitri Shostakovich