Opera vs. Art song / Lieder

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

My interest in opera has run hot and cold over the years. My first love in opera was Bellini's Norma with Callas, Corelli, Serafin, et al.--I nearly wore out my LPs, but then finally bought it on CD. A couple years later, I went through a Verdi period (about 10 years ago) with the acquisition of Aida (Milanov, Bjoerling, Perlea, Christoff), followed by La Traviata (Callas, etc.), Don Carlos (Domingo, I think), Othello (Vickers), etc. Then, I lost interest for a couple years. Then I became interested in Handel's Julius Caeasar, Monetverdi's Orfeo, Incoronazione de Poppea, Rossini's Barber of Seville, Mozart's Cosi Fan Tutti and Marriage of Figaro, etc. Then I lost interest for a few more years. In 1994, I really got into Wagner's Lohengrin, and Tannhauser as well. But my interest faded just as quickly in 2005-2006. I've never cared for Puccini or any other verismo; the storylines seem trite and the music doesn't inspire me.

Now, I'm in a major cold period for opera and just seem to have no interest at all. All this time however my love of art song and lieder has grown steadily. Currently I'm really getting interested in Russian art songs after my recent trip to Russia and acquisition of LPs of Boris Christoff singing songs of Glinka and Jennie Tourel singing various songs by Rimsky-Korsakoff, Glinka, Tchaikovsky, Cui, et al. For me, the song can be listened to and appreciated in a matter of minutes, whereas the opera takes much longer. I work at home late at night writing and dealing with images in Photoshop and a number of other programs. For extended listening while I'm working, I find Bruckner to be absolutely wonderful, but cannot concentrate with opera as I once did. I really have too many other interests and demands on my time to sit and listen to an opera for hours on end. I'd rather be playing the piano, working on my German, doing some photography, or listening to art song and lieder (not to mention Bach, etc).

But, that's just me..

Which do you prefer and why?

[marvinbrown]

My interest in opera has run hot and cold over the years. My first love in opera was Bellini's Norma with Callas, Corelli, Serafin, et al.--I nearly wore out my LPs, but then finally bought it on CD. A couple years later, I went through a Verdi period (about 10 years ago) with the acquisition of Aida (Milanov, Bjoerling, Perlea, Christoff), followed by La Traviata (Callas, etc.), Don Carlos (Domingo, I think), Othello (Vickers), etc. Then, I lost interest for a couple years. Then I became interested in Handel's Julius Caeasar, Monetverdi's Orfeo, Incoronazione de Poppea, Rossini's Barber of Seville, Mozart's Cosi Fan Tutti and Marriage of Figaro, etc. Then I lost interest for a few more years. In 1994, I really got into Wagner's Lohengrin, and Tannhauser as well. But my interest faded just as quickly in 2005-2006. I've never cared for Puccini or any other verismo; the storylines seem trite and the music doesn't inspire me.

Now, I'm in a major cold period for opera and just seem to have no interest at all. All this time however my love of art song and lieder has grown steadily. Currently I'm really getting interested in Russian art songs after my recent trip to Russia and acquisition of LPs of Boris Christoff singing songs of Glinka and Jennie Tourel singing various songs by Rimsky-Korsakoff, Glinka, Tchaikovsky, Cui, et al. For me, the song can be listened to and appreciated in a matter of minutes, whereas the opera takes much longer. I work at home late at night writing and dealing with images in Photoshop and a number of other programs. For extended listening while I'm working, I find Bruckner to be absolutely wonderful, but cannot concentrate with opera as I once did. I really have too many other interests and demands on my time to sit and listen to an opera for hours on end. I'd rather be playing the piano, working on my German, doing some photography, or listening to art song and lieder (not to mention Bach, etc).

But, that's just me..

Which do you prefer and why?

  First let me say that I am sorry to hear about your roller coaster ride with opera.  To answer your question I prefer opera over Art song/Leider all the way, no question about it.  There is nothing quite like the musical experience of being drawn into a captivating story, high on drama and visual appeal (eg Aida, Otello, Ring Cycle, Elektra, Don Giovanni, Tosca).  Lieder can not come close to this experience- well at least it hasn't for me anyway.  Why not think of opera as a "collection" of lieder with a unifying theme?


  marvin

[locrian]

I am currently attempting to get into opera through recordings alone, no DVDs, no concerts. Otherwise, I am a lieder fan all the way. You certainly don't have to invest as much time and effort when listening to lieder. And I like the piano so maybe that's part of it.

[bhodges]

Now, I'm in a major cold period for opera and just seem to have no interest at all. All this time however my love of art song and lieder has grown steadily. Currently I'm really getting interested in Russian art songs after my recent trip to Russia and acquisition of LPs of Boris Christoff singing songs of Glinka and Jennie Tourel singing various songs by Rimsky-Korsakoff, Glinka, Tchaikovsky, Cui, et al.

I truly like both.  Opera has its own pleasures, but so does the song repertoire, and I'd miss either a great deal. 

Although I wouldn't worry too much about your up-and-down love affair with opera, you might try some Russian operas, only because you didn't mention seeing any, and you appear to be enjoying Russian songs.  Glinka, Rimsky-Korsakov and Tchaikovsky all wrote some marvelous works that might engage you more at the current time.  You might enjoy Eugene Onegin--it has a much more plausible, psychologically interesting story than many operas do (IMHO).

Also, if you are "just" listening to opera on CD and not seeing a few on DVD, you are missing out on a great recent technological advance.  Truly, DVDs are a real sea change in the way one can experience opera at home, and there are so many great productions running around.  Tomorrow night I'm going to another friend's house to watch (again) the 2006 production of Shostakovich's Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk, which is fantastic, as enthralling to watch as a movie.  And the 1997 production of Offenbach's Orpheus in the Underworld (based on the familiar story) from Brussels is one of the most entertaining I've ever seen--and funny.  Before seeing it, I didn't realize that the composer's "can-can" is from this opera.

Admittedly you may just be in a "low" period for this genre, and if so, I would just listen to other things and return later.

--Bruce

[wagnernn]

for me,l opera is the art of the art ,and Art lieder is the top of vocal works.So, it's very difficult to compare.
I think you should try different kinds of opera.How about French operas? The adventures from Rameau to Massenet and from Debussy to The Six are very intersting

[suomesta]

As a former singer, I think it is much more fun to do the opera than to listen...Now I listen to different things in music and actually prefer recordings. It is fun to imagine the set, costumes and acting without  seeing it. But I like art song too. There can be a big drama hiding in a small song, think about Hugo Wolf, for example.

[marvinbrown]

I am currently attempting to get into opera through recordings alone, no DVDs, no concerts. Otherwise, I am a lieder fan all the way. You certainly don't have to invest as much time and effort when listening to lieder. And I like the piano so maybe that's part of it.

  Hi locrian,  I would seriously recommend you attempt getting into opera through DVDs and not just through recordings alone.  When I was getting into opera I went specifically through recordings alone and at times it was very hard work reading the libretto while lisenting to the music and trying to correlate the two together.  Later as I started watching operas on DVD I discovered how much more enjoyable and easier the experience is when you can see as well as hear!!  Now all I do is watch opera DVDs. Lieder can never statisfy me as much as a GREAT opera DVD production can!!

  marvin   

[locrian]

  Hi locrian,  I would seriously recommend you attempt getting into opera through DVDs and not just through recordings alone.  When I was getting into opera I went specifically through recordings alone and at times it was very hard work reading the libretto while lisenting to the music and trying to correlate the two together.  Later as I started watching operas on DVD I discovered how much more enjoyable and easier the experience is when you can see as well as hear!!  Now all I do is watch opera DVDs. Lieder can never statisfy me as much as a GREAT opera DVD production can!!

  marvin   

Thanks, marvin. Yeah, that makes sense, but I don't get much TV time. And when I do, it's something my wife and I both want to watch, and that will never be an opera, unfortunately.

[knight66]

I think art-song is more of an acquired taste, but like chamber music, it often goes to the heart of the matter in an economical way. I have quite a large collection of song discs, I would not be without them any more than I would get rid of my Opera recordings. I don't see it as an either, or....nor as one being better than the other.

Mike

[Ten thumbs]

Agreed that both opera and lieder are essential in the pursuit of great music. If you're finding Russian song to your liking, look up Medtner as well.

[Don]

Agreed that both opera and lieder are essential in the pursuit of great music.

How so?

[knight66]

Not that the question was directed at me, but....to the extent art acts as a mirror to reflect, or a lamp to illuminate life; each art form is concerned with explaining the human condition and I think they are essential to the extent that art is ever regarded as essential.

Mike

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

Interesting thoughts everyone. I am a big fan of Moussorgsky's Boris Goudonov, which I forgot to mention. I've had the recording with Boris Christoff for quite a while. Maybe I'll listen to it now...

[Lady Chatterley]

Opera vs Art song and Leider,apples and oranges!

[jochanaan]

Opera vs Art song and Leider,apples and oranges!

Or like a full-length verse play and a sonnet.  I love both.  But I agree with marvinbrown that operas are best seen AND heard.

[Ten thumbs]

Or like a full-length verse play and a sonnet.  I love both.  But I agree with marvinbrown that operas are best seen AND heard.

True, and that reminds me how lucky we are now. When I was a boy, I learned to love Wagner through listening on the Third Programme. There were no televisions then!