Charles Ives

[Joe Barron]

How can the Naxos Sog series be running to six volumes, when another complete songs set is only four CDs? Also, I'm a bit sceptical as to how good an idea the alphabetical ordering of the songs is. It's not an awful idea, but it's just odd. And not Ivesian odd!

The one advantage is you can find an individual song among six volumes more easily if they appear in alphabetical order than if they appear chronologically, as in the Albany recording. On the other hand, since I have the Albany recording, I don't feel the need for another complete set. If you want a new CD of Ives songs, I'd recommend Susan Narucki and Donald Berman's  disk, "The Light that is Felt." Just exquisite performances. Susan has been singing Ives's songs for 30 years, and Donald Berman, the pianist on the two "Unknown Ives" disk, is a superb accompanist. These live inside Ives's music, and it shows in the recording: a five-smiley release. 

Susan offers a few insights into her relationship with the music (with a comment from someone you may know) here.

[Guido]

The one advantage is you can find an individual song among six volumes more easily if they appear in alphabetical order than if they appear chronologically, as in the Albany recording. On the other hand, since I have the Albany recording, I don't feel the need for another complete set. If you want a new CD of Ives songs, I'd recommend Susan Narucki and Donald Berman's  disk, "The Light that is Felt." Just exquisite performances. Susan has been singing Ives's songs for 30 years, and Donald Berman, the pianist on the two "Unknown Ives" disk, is a superb accompanist. These live inside Ives's music, and it shows in the recording: a five-smiley release. 

Susan offers a few insights into her relationship with the music (with a comment from someone you may know) here.

Thanks for the tip - I will order them.

[Joe Barron]

Thanks for the tip - I will order them.

Them? It.

[Guido]

Them? It.

Oh, sorry I thought it was a series - I guess this is volume I of hopefully more...

EDIT: Actually there's no particular indication that it is. 

[Joe Barron]

Oh, sorry I thought it was a series - I guess this is volume I of hopefully more...

EDIT: Actually there's no particular indication that it is. 

Well, I did put the words "CD," "disk" and "release" in the singular.  Such subtleties of language are meant to speak for themselves.

[Guido]

Yeah... no I meant there is no indication on the CD itself, that it is the first volume of several.

[The Six]

I remember reading that Peter Schickele said Ives' ideas were better than his music, or something like that. I couldn't find it in a Google search, but it might have been posted on the old board. I just hope that he didn't really say it.

[Joe Barron]

I remember reading that Peter Schickele said Ives' ideas were better than his music, or something like that. I couldn't find it in a Google search, but it might have been posted on the old board. I just hope that he didn't really say it.

It was Elliott Carter who wrote that Ives's music is often more interesting than good. I wasn't aware that Schickele said anything of the sort. To me, such a fine-tuned criticism doesn't sound like him, but then again, I don't remember him playing anything by Ives on his Public Radio series.

[Guido]

I hate the way people come out with statements of fact like that as if they are anything more than opinions. My truth is the truth! Luckily, no one on this forum is ever guilty of this.

[Joe Barron]

Luckily, no one on this forum is ever guilty of this.

I detect a note of irony here. 

[Guido]

I detect a note of irony here. 

Oh come off it, I'm not being in the least bit disingenuous. Just like M.

[Guido]

I just borrowed the Gayle book from the library... Not sure if I will have time to read it all, but have had a read of a couple of chapters already, and no sense of passion is conveyed for the music she is discussing. I find very matter of fact biographies like this rather dull, apart from anything. I probably should read more before making a judgement like this, but this was just my first impression.

[Joe Barron]

I just borrowed the Gayle book from the library... Not sure if I will have time to read it all, but have had a read of a couple of chapters already, and no sense of passion is conveyed for the music she is discussing. I find very matter of fact biographies like this rather dull, apart from anything. I probably should read more before making a judgement like this, but this was just my first impression.

Interesting you should make this point. Privately, Gayle has told me that despite the problems with chronology, Ives's originality is never in question, since, as she put it, no one has written like hime before or sense. Unfortunately, she doesn't make that point in the book, which I think does give the impression that his   originality is in doubt. I found the early chapters on the Columbian Exposition and Parker quite valuable, but, as I said in my review, the composer seems to disappear just when he reaches his most productive decade. It's almost as though he becomes nothing but the sum of his influences.

I'd suggest making time to read the whole thing. It is fairly brief.

[Guido]

Interesting you should make this point. Privately, Gayle has told me that despite the problems with chronology, Ives's originality is never in question, since, as she put it, no one has written like hime before or sense. Unfortunately, she doesn't make that point in the book, which I think does give the impression that his   originality is in doubt. I found the early chapters on the Columbian Exposition and Parker quite valuable, but, as I said in my review, the composer seems to disappear just when he reaches his most productive decade. It's almost as though he becomes nothing but the sum of his influences.

I'd suggest making time to read the whole thing. It is fairly brief.

Interesting thoughts Joe. It is actually shorter than I thought, so I will read it all, hopefully by the end of this semester if I have time. Everything I have read so far has confirmed exactly what you just said - every one of his actions and statements is explained in terms of something else: his child hood, his insecurities, his need to coform etc. etc. This may be an informative, if dull read.

[karlhenning]

Finish a song that Ives didn't!

[Guido]

Finish a song that Ives didn't!

Thanks for the headsup Karl! I trust you'll be entering?

[Guido]

http://www.amazon.com/Charles-Ives-Psalms-Complete-Recording/dp/B001FXSN50/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1230832143&sr=8-1

I just learned of this release and downloaded it off itunes. This is the first time that five of these Psalms have been made available as far as I know, and certainly the only place you can currently get all of them together like this - sadly that Gregg Smith Singers LP has never been reissued on CD. Most are early laboratory works from the 1890s and we see Ives trying out lots of highly original ideas. Psalm 90 is particularly moving and is perhaps his last great work - a beautiful summing up of his all too short compositional career - he professed that it was the only piece of his that he was truly satisfied with (though I feel that he might have been slightly overstating this!). Psalm 67 is also truly remarkable as it is in two keys consistently throughout - amazing considering it was composed in 1894. There's really too many wonderful moments throughout the CD to comment on.

The singing is very good, even if it all seems the slightest bit clean and measured to feel truely Ivesian. Emminently recommendable. It is a shame that the Harvest Home Chorales are not available at the moment - these are Ives true vocal masterpieces and unlike anything else in his output - again wonderful works.

[Guido]

It would be nice to see some of the Ives enthusiasts posting their thoughts or comments on the Ives Marathon forum: http://ivesvocalmarathon.com/forum/index.php?board=3.0

This Neely Bruce chappy is clearly a true fanatic and has thought about these pieces a lot. Is anyone going to try and make the marathon itself?

[Guido]

Glad that I am not the only one... 
The lack of recordings really is surprising isn't it, given how oft recorded some of the other major works are.

Just found this on Youtube, and thought I'd post it in case anyone hadn't heard it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10pqluMwgXQ&feature=related

Ives singing his own war song, half protest, half celebratory. I love

When we're through this cursed war,
All those dynamite-sneaking gougers,
Making slaves of men (God damn them)

But there'll come a day,
Hip, hip, hooray,

When they'll smash all dictators to the wall!

Let's build a people's world nation, hooray!
Every honest country free to live its own,
native life!

His humour, passion and naivity are so touching here.

Also the fantastic recording of the Alcott's movement of the Concord Sonata that he made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXHjeSamzno&feature=related

Here you can see what an artist he was at the piano.

[Guido]

Where are ' 's posts?