Charles Ives

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My only complaint about Ives is that there's not more Ives recordings! 

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Yes I include that one.

Forgot to mention of course, the Holidays Symphony, another masterpiece, which could be thought of as Symphony No.3.5, lying as it does in sound, achievement and technique somewhere between the 3rd and 4th symphonies. Maybe Symphony no.5 would be more sensible. Ramblings aside, it's another monumental achievement, though the large scale work by Ives that took me longest to assimilate and appreciate.

I love Holidays Symphony. It has all the Ivesian hallmarks: polytonal zaniness, rhythmic complexity, and deep yearning hymns. The work's finale, Thanksgiving Day and Forefather's Day, contains one of the most joyous moments in American music I've heard. Love those offstage bells and the choral singing is just such a brilliant touch.

Do you have a favorite recording of this symphony? Right now, I have to say I thoroughly enjoy Tilson Thomas' reading with the CSO and also I liked Sinclair's reading on Naxos. This symphony just isn't recorded enough!

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If you want the convenience of both pieces on the same CD, at a reasonable price & adequatelly conducted, try Leonard Bernstein:



I adore this CD - mainly for the shorter pieces - there's so much atmosphere in each one. Still my favourite Central Park and Unanswered Question, and also my favourite version of the far less recorded but equally beautiful and atmospheric Hymn: Largo Cantabile.

This is the first Ives recording I bought and it is outstanding no question about it. Although I like Bernstein's earlier recording of Central Park in the Dark better. The way he handles that demonic marching band outburst to my ears is much more livelier and energetic.

[Guido]

I love Holidays Symphony. It has all the Ivesian hallmarks: polytonal zaniness, rhythmic complexity, and deep yearning hymns. The work's finale, Thanksgiving Day and Forefather's Day, contains one of the most joyous moments in American music I've heard. Love those offstage bells and the choral singing is just such a brilliant touch.

Do you have a favorite recording of this symphony? Right now, I have to say I thoroughly enjoy Tilson Thomas' reading with the CSO and also I liked Sinclair's reading on Naxos. This symphony just isn't recorded enough!

Tilson-Thomas' has always been a joy for me and I've never searched out another. But I'm not a versions queen.

As I've said here before - that Bernstein reading of the second is great, but why it's really valuable is all the miniatures, for me never more atmospherically or ravishingly recorded. As well as the famous two (Central Park, and Unanswered Question), the Hymn: Largo Cantibile is a little gem of compression - like so much Ives a microcosmic world that to me is one of the most sheerly beautiful things he ever wrote.

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Tilson-Thomas' has always been a joy for me and I've never searched out another. But I'm not a versions queen.

As I've said here before - that Bernstein reading of the second is great, but why it's really valuable is all the miniatures, for me never more atmospherically or ravishingly recorded. As well as the famous two (Central Park, and Unanswered Question), the Hymn: Largo Cantibile is a little gem of compression - like so much Ives a microcosmic world that to me is one of the most sheerly beautiful things he ever wrote.

Well, as I said, that Bernstein recording on DG was my introduction to Ives and remains one of my favorite recordings of his music, but Tilson Thomas' recordings are just as enjoyable for me. I like the way Bernstein handles those marches and the Ivesian outbursts, but I think Tilson Thomas pays a bit more attention to the structure of the music and has fantastic phrasing.

[Guido]

Well, as I said, that Bernstein recording on DG was my introduction to Ives and remains one of my favorite recordings of his music, but Tilson Thomas' recordings are just as enjoyable for me. I like the way Bernstein handles those marches and the Ivesian outbursts, but I think Tilson Thomas pays a bit more attention to the structure of the music and has fantastic phrasing.

Tilson Thomas is not such a wilful artist, and also comes from the generation where respecting the markings and minutiae of the score is in vogue.

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Tilson Thomas is not such a wilful artist, and also comes from the generation where respecting the markings and minutiae of the score is in vogue.

Well he's certainly a fine Ives conductor.

[bhodges]

Tilson Thomas is excellent in this repertoire. PS, Jan Swafford, author of Charles Ives: A Life with Music, calls the Tilson Thomas/Chicago recording of the Holidays, "the finest Ives orchestral recording ever made." High praise!

--Bruce

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Well he's certainly a fine Ives conductor.

I'd like to know where you dreamed up that quote you attribute to Ives.   

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I'd like to know where you dreamed up that quote you attribute to Ives.   

What quote? It's how I feel about MTT conducting Ives.

[Scarpia]

What quote? It's how I feel about MTT conducting Ives.

Your signature:

You can fill this table up with people who are racist, homophobic, Satanist worshippers, sexist and we can be arguing but if you put on a song, I guarantee that people will stop and listen and that's what I love about music, it can bring people together." - Charles Ives

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Tilson Thomas is excellent in this repertoire. PS, Jan Swafford, author of Charles Ives: A Life with Music, calls the Tilson Thomas/Chicago recording of the Holidays, "the finest Ives orchestral recording ever made." High praise!

--Bruce

I haven't read the book, but that is high praise indeed and completely warranted in my opinion. Not since Bernstein, have we had such an enthusiastic conductor who really understands the music and the man behind the music. There have been other notable Ives conductors through the years: Mehta, Dohnanyi, Sinclair, and Litton, but Tilson Thomas really breathes this music.

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Your signature:

Oh, I found on Brainyquote or some site that's dedicated to quotes from composers, writers, directors, etc. Should I find another one?

[Scarpia]

Oh, I found on Brainyquote or some site that's dedicated to quotes from composers, writers, directors, etc.

I googled it, and it appears in numerous blogs which mostly seem to be hip-hop fan sites, and seem to be attributed to someone named Charles King. 

I'd say it can't possibly be Ives because the words "homophobic" and "sexist" did not exist in 1954 when Ives died.  (Websters says the first know use of these terms is 1968 and 1969).

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I googled it, and it appears in numerous blogs which mostly seem to be hip-hop fan sites, and seems to be attributed to someone named Charles King. 

I'd say it can't possibly be Ives because the words "homophobic" and "sexist" did not exist in 1954 when Ives dies.  (Websters says the first know use of these terms is 1968 and 1969).

Good observation. I guess I'll find a new one.

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Found one.

[PaulSC]

Good observation. I guess I'll find a new one.

This is maybe as close as Ives gets to the sentiment of your current (spurious) signature:

But we would rather believe that music is beyond any
analogy to word language and that the time is coming, but not in
our lifetime, when it will develop possibilities unconceivable
now,--a language, so transcendent, that its heights and depths
will be common to all mankind.

From Essays Before a Sonata

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This is maybe as close as Ives gets to the sentiment of your current (spurious) signature:From Essays Before a Sonata

Good quote, but I've already found one from my old friend Bela Bartok.

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This is maybe as close as Ives gets to the sentiment of your current (spurious) signature.

Lord.  Maybe the bit about satan worshipers wasn't Ives but it was intelligible, at least.

[PaulSC]

Lord.  Maybe the bit about satan worshipers wasn't Ives but it was intelligible, at least.

I think the Ives passage is at least as intelligible as a lot of the Transcendentalist writings that influenced it. I mean, it's easily paraphrased as "the music of the future will express meanings that transcend boundaries of language." Do you know the Essays from which this bit is extracted? They're a great read unless you have absolutely no patience with Ives' patterns of thought.