Bach: Mass in B minor

Started by Don Giovanni, April 18, 2007, 11:30:17 AM

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jlaurson

Quote from: KevinP on December 28, 2009, 04:55:10 PM
Do you have a link for this one? My favourite conductor of my favourite piece and I had no idea about this version. It's not even listed at bach-cantatas.com.  Is it live?

German link

could not find a US link

UK link

French link

KevinP

Thanks, both. Just ordered it.

While we're on a roll, do either of you have a link for the Russian recording? I've been looking for that one for a few years but have never tracked it down.

DarkAngel

#122
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on December 22, 2009, 05:53:25 PM
Yes, DA, Kuijken is currently my top choice, together with Leonhardt. But it exists a lot of very enjoyable versions, for instance, just to mention some of them among my own discs: Veldhoven, Herreweghe 1 & 2, Suzuki, Junghanel, Fasolis, Gardiner.

While I await the delivery of new Kuijken version I took delivery of the 1998 Fasolis Mass mentioned by A.M., delightful version that takes a middle ground between grand modern orchestra versions and the spartan OVPP of Parrott etc, clear detailed sound with agile clarified textures a great one to add to any collection, spirited inspired singing that sounds very fresh, timing is 104 minutes compared to Gardiner/Archiv 106 minutes, Herreweghe II 108 minutes (Richter/Archiv boxset & Klemperer/EMI 136 minutes)  :)




Leo K.




WOW.  Real incredible performance...I ordered this after being amazed at the sound examples on Amazon and I was not dissapointed upon my first listen last night.

A live performance recorded at the St.Paul's Cathedral...so yeah, you probably have to be a reverb fan to want to have this...but WOW...great singing on here too.

Because of the echo, the parts of the orchestra sounds like distant stars surrounding you...the horizon seems to be hidden by couldy atmospheric perspective.

Gotta love this old school Bach sometimes.


ccar

#124
Quote from: KevinP on December 28, 2009, 11:43:00 PM
Thanks, both. Just ordered it.

While we're on a roll, do either of you have a link for the Russian recording? I've been looking for that one for a few years but have never tracked it down.

Sorry Kevin. No help on that. It was first released as a Melodiya LP and latter as a Ars Nova CD (005/06) but AFAIK became quickly OOP and has always been difficult to find - it was once available from Tower Japan but I believe not anymore.

DarkAngel

Quote from: DarkAngel on December 21, 2009, 04:02:15 PM


I very recently ordered the Suzuki/BIS 10 CD boxset of sacred works (mass, passions, oratorios)

These seem to get very good reviews and Amazon sellers have it for close to $50, also I believe the BIS sound will be quite good. Will report in when box arrives.......... ;)

The Suzuki boxset has arrived............befrore I comment on performances I must applaud the excellent BIS packaging.
The hardcase box contains the full booklet from each individual release, same is true of the Suzuki cantata boxsets they have full booklet from every individual CD release, I have never seen this generous amount of documentation for any boxset previously! :)

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: DarkAngel on December 29, 2009, 04:37:39 AM
While I await the delivery of new Kuijken version I took delivery of the 1998 Fasolis Mass mentioned by A.M., delightful version that takes a middle ground between grand modern orchestra versions and the spartan OVPP of Parrott etc, clear detailed sound with agile clarified textures a great one to add to any collection, spirited inspired singing that sounds very fresh, timing is 104 minutes compared to Gardiner/Archiv 106 minutes, Herreweghe II 108 minutes (Richter/Archiv boxset & Klemperer/EMI 136 minutes)  :)



Hi, DA. I believe I have said this before, but I prefer Fasolis conducting vocal music. He goes mad rather easily when music is exclusively instrumental, for instance, in the Orchestral Suites and the Brandenburgs. On the contrary, his Mass in B minor, Johannes-Passion, Mätthaus-Passion and Weihnachtsoratorium are totally enjoyable, IMO (especially the latter, one of my preferred versions of these cantatas).

I think you would love his recordings of BWV 198, 106 (in the same disc!) and 1083 Psalm 51 (Tilge, Höchster, meine Sünden). Please, check this video:


:)

DarkAngel

Antoine
I immediately placed an order for Fasolis - St John Passion after hearing the B Minor mass, awaiting delivery.....

KevinP

Quote from: DarkAngel on December 29, 2009, 05:52:47 PM
Antoine
I immediately placed an order for Fasolis - St John Passion after hearing the B Minor mass, awaiting delivery.....

I like that Mass too. In fact, it might just be my favourite recording of the Mass by a not-well-known conductor. Think I'll revisit it today; it's been a while.

KevinP

Since we're talking about the Mass, for anyone who wasn't here at the time or hasn't discovered it since, here the listening group I lead some four (wow) years ago.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,5637.0.html

KevinP

Okay I came home from work and put on the Fasolis. It's not the one I was thinking of when I praised it above. The one I had in mind, and which is spinning now, is Radu's. (It's not even the first time I made this mistake. I think I bought the CDs at the same time.) The reason I like Radu's interpretation is because he is the only conductor to use only a harpsichord for the continuo. Others use the organ or a combination of two. The organless continuo here gives it a different feel, almost like a choral Brandenburg. The effect is most agreeable, especially as an alternative.

Leo K.

Quote from: masolino on April 13, 2009, 02:13:02 AM
This was released in France last December but has been released elsewhere only in recent months.  I have listened to it only once through but have been really impressed.  Minkowski has managed to create this truly rich and yet transparent sound out a 10-strong choir and 26-piece orchestra and his interpretation is surprisingly more nuanced, sensual, and dramatic than most other dozen HIP recordings I have heard.  To me his experience in Handel and in French baroque operas pays off handsomely here. 



For further refrence, this is the press review that I identify most among those I have read so far:

All Music Guide review of Bach B minor Mass recording (Minkowski) by Stephen Eddins


Wow!  What a great B Minor Mass!

Immediately the most satisfying HIP account I've yet heard of this work...absolutely stunning sonics too.


DarkAngel

Quote from: Leo K on January 02, 2010, 08:50:23 AM

Wow!  What a great B Minor Mass!

Immediately the most satisfying HIP account I've yet heard of this work...absolutely stunning sonics too.

Leo, pretty nice package also for Minkowski...........

I received Antoine's beloved new Kuijken version in mail, so naturally we must compare these two new OVPP Masses and see where we stand  :)

Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 02, 2010, 09:04:51 AM
Leo, pretty nice package also for Minkowski...........

I received Antoine's beloved new Kuijken version in mail, so naturally we must compare these two new OVPP Masses and see where we stand  :)

DA,  You meant this set?  I bought it over a month ago ...


DarkAngel

#134
Quote from: Coopmv on January 02, 2010, 09:09:56 AM
DA,  You meant this set?  I bought it over a month ago ...


Indeed, that is the one............
Since Antoine scored a big hit for me with Fasoli, I suspect the Kuijken will also be to my liking

DarkAngel

#135
vs

Just listened to the lastest contenders in the OVPP Bach Mass B Minor, both of these are better than the older Parrott an early OVPP pioner. Kuijken talks in booklet about being converted from large choral group to OVPP and now cannot go back. He uses a small group of 8 vocalists and some sections only use 5, Minkowski slightly larger group with 10. Kuijken group acheives wonderful polyphony with voices weaving in and out especially in sanctus/osanna section, sounds like a Monteverdi Vesper at St Marks in Venice, soloist stepping out from choral group sound lovely with the sopranos sounding very angelic

Another advantage for Kuijken is the use of small organ for continuo with gives a deeper fondation bass from which angelic voices can soar to the heavens.....Minkowski uses harpsicord or organ as needed. So I give the overall edge to Kuijken, he gives us the clarified detail and counterpoint heard clearly in this OVPP that is often lost and drowned out in large choral groups previously used, while still keeping an overall richness and depth to sound.

The Challenge Classics hybrid SACD sound could hardly be better, especially the trumpet and horn fanfares which sound very natural and spacious
Timings are Kuijken 102 minutes, Minkowski 107 minutes

Leo K.

#136
Quote from: DarkAngel on January 02, 2010, 02:27:06 PM
vs

Just listened to the lastest contenders in the OVPP Bach Mass B Minor, both of these are better than the older Parrott an early OVPP pioner. Kuijken talks in booklet about being converted from large choral group to OVPP and now cannot go back. He uses a small group of 8 vocalists and some sections only use 5, Minkowski slightly larger group with 10. Kuijken group acheives wonderful polyphony with voices weaving in and out especially in sanctus/osanna section, sounds like a Monteverdi Vesper at St Marks in Venice, soloist stepping out from choral group sound lovely with the sopranos sounding very angelic

Another advantage for Kuijken is the use of small organ for continuo with gives a deeper fondation bass from which angelic voices can soar to the heavens.....Minkowski uses harpsicord or organ as needed. So I give the overall edge to Kuijken, he gives us the clarified detail and counterpoint heard clearly in this OVPP that is often lost and drowned out in large choral groups previously used, while still keeping an overall richness and depth to sound.

The Challenge Classics hybrid SACD sound could hardly be better, especially the trumpet and horn fanfares which sound very natural and spacious
Timings are Kuijken 102 minutes, Minkowski 107 minutes

Thanks for that comparison!  I almost bought the Kuijken from Borders but I hadn't heard any samples yet so I waited, and ended up getting Minkowski first on iTunes because I was blown away at the sonics.  I'm heading over to Amazon to listen to some samples of the Kuijken now.  Since I have an SACD player I am definitely interested in the Kuijken account.

I should mention that I'm quite new to the OVPP performance of the Mass and the St.Matthew Passion (via the McCreesh), and so far I've been blown away at what I'm hearing.



DarkAngel

Quote from: Leo K on January 03, 2010, 05:42:16 AM
Thanks for that comparison!  I almost bought the Kuijken from Borders but I hadn't heard any samples yet so I waited, and ended up getting Minkowski first on iTunes because I was blown away at the sonics.  I'm heading over to Amazon to listen to some samples of the Kuijken now.  Since I have an SACD player I am definitely interested in the Kuijken account.

The solution to many dilemas here is to own both............. ;)
If you like Minkowski's version you will definitely be impressed with Kuijken also, and vice versa

If you have accepted and embrace the sound of OVPP for Bach you really need both, even for those who were turned off by early OVPP releases like Parrott should give Kuijken another chance, you may have a change of heart and be won over.

jlaurson

Quote from: Leo K on January 03, 2010, 05:42:16 AM
Thanks for that comparison!  I almost bought the Kuijken from Borders but I hadn't heard any samples yet so I waited, and ended up getting Minkowski first on iTunes because I was blown away at the sonics.  I'm heading over to Amazon to listen to some samples of the Kuijken now.  Since I have an SACD player I am definitely interested in the Kuijken account.

I should mention that I'm quite new to the OVPP performance of the Mass and the St.Matthew Passion (via the McCreesh), and so far I've been blown away at what I'm hearing.

If you're interested, here's an interview with Minkowski and how he came to Bach:
"I'm American, You know" – Interview with Marc Minkowski, Part 1
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=574


I still prefer van Veldhoven, I don't yet know Kuijken II, but Minkowski blew me away immediately and is among my favorite versions. I like what DarkAngel had to say about the polyphonic strengths of his 10-singer group. By the way: How do you, DarkAngel, account for 107 minutes for Minkowski? Somehow it only adds up to 101 for me.


J.S. Bach, Mass in B-minor, Minkowski / LMdL
naïve 5145 (101:05)

DarkAngel

Quote from: jlaurson on January 03, 2010, 06:31:08 AM
I still prefer van Veldhoven, I don't yet know Kuijken II, but Minkowski blew me away immediately and is among my favorite versions. I like what DarkAngel had to say about the polyphonic strengths of his 10-singer group. By the way: How do you, DarkAngel, account for 107 minutes for Minkowski? Somehow it only adds up to 101 for me.

Since there is no total timing given in Minkowski booklet I took total times from CD player readout for both CDs and added them together........ 53:24 + 53:40