At the end of the alphabet: Zemlinsky

Started by bhodges, October 16, 2007, 02:15:43 PM

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Lisztianwagner

Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 04, 2022, 02:54:07 PM
Next stop the Lyric Symphony and the String Quartets.  The late Sinfonietta is a knotty but impressively austere work - quite different from The Mermaid.

I've already listened to the Lyric Symphony and it is a beautiful piece, with a brilliant orchestration and very well combined atmospheres between the passionate intensity and the titanism of Mahler, and tense, haunting dissonances nearer to the expressionist music. I was told that this composition is often considered as the little brother of Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde, and as a matter of fact they share some similarities like the instrumentation, the vocal structure and the texts based on eastern poems, but apart from that, Zemlinsky developed his work in a very original, expressive way.
I've also listened to the String Quartets recently and I loved them, especially No.2,3 and 4; they were more dissonant than I had expected (since I read Zemlinsky was never very attracted by the use of Schönberg and Second Viennese School's sharp atonality) but certainly thrilling and mesmerizing; String Quartet No.1 is the only one which shows a more brahmsian style.
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

vandermolen

Ah, my favourite thread title!  :)
The 'Lyric Symphony' and 'Mermaid' are great favourites.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 06, 2022, 12:05:51 PM
I've already listened to the Lyric Symphony and it is a beautiful piece, with a brilliant orchestration and very well combined atmospheres between the passionate intensity and the titanism of Mahler, and tense, haunting dissonances nearer to the expressionist music. I was told that this composition is often considered as the little brother of Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde, and as a matter of fact they share some similarities like the instrumentation, the vocal structure and the texts based on eastern poems, but apart from that, Zemlinsky developed his work in a very original, expressive way.
I've also listened to the String Quartets recently and I loved them, especially No.2,3 and 4; they were more dissonant than I had expected (since I read Zemlinsky was never very attracted by the use of Schönberg and Second Viennese School's sharp atonality) but certainly thrilling and mesmerizing; String Quartet No.1 is the only one which shows a more brahmsian style.

Great stuff, Ilaria. I love all of these works you mentioned. I still recommend checking out the operas Der Zwerg and Eine florentinische Tragödie, but also the choral works like the Psalms. Zemlinsky is a fantastic composer!

Lisztianwagner

Quote from: vandermolen on May 06, 2022, 12:10:31 PM
Ah, my favourite thread title!  :)
The 'Lyric Symphony' and 'Mermaid' are great favourites.
Agreed, they are really gorgeous.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 06, 2022, 12:35:58 PM
Great stuff, Ilaria. I love all of these works you mentioned. I still recommend checking out the operas Der Zwerg and Eine florentinische Tragödie, but also the choral works like the Psalms. Zemlinsky is a fantastic composer!
I've already listened to the Psalms (both on the Chailly & RSO Berlin recording) and I enjoyed those works very much, they're definitely remarkable; No. 23 is very mystical and evocative, while No. 13 has a quite different atmosphere, more tragic, haunting, with more tension and sometimes anxiety (apart from the glorious ending), but absolutely compelling.
I haven't forgotten your suggestion about Zemlinsky's operas, I promise I'll listen to them this weekend; I've just seen they're about 1 hour/1 hour and half long....they'll be a piece of cake for someone trained with Wagner's works.   ;)
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Mirror Image

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 06, 2022, 01:38:11 PM
I've already listened to the Psalms (both on the Chailly & RSO Berlin recording) and I enjoyed those works very much, they're definitely remarkable; No. 23 is very mystical and evocative, while No. 13 has a quite different atmosphere, more tragic, haunting, with more tension and sometimes anxiety (apart from the glorious ending), but absolutely compelling.
I haven't forgotten your suggestion about Zemlinsky's operas, I promise I'll listen to them this weekend; I've just seen they're about 1 hour/1 hour and half long....they'll be a piece of cake for someone trained with Wagner's works.   ;)

Great to read, Ilaria. 8) And, yes, these operas' durations should be quite easy for you. :)

Lisztianwagner

First listening to a Zemlinsky opera, Der Zwerg: such an outstanding work, I absolutely loved it! The music was impressive, very immersive and involving, and although the scene is rather static and without many changes, the orchestral texture and the timbric variations depicted brilliantly the intense, passionate feelings, what could be seen and what was kept hidden, with a powerful chromatism, but also sharper harmonies showing the tension and sufference of the inner essence of the human being; really striking. There was a great juxtaposition of real and illusive, between the colourful, bright, but at the same time cold and cruel, atmospheres of the royal court, and the tragic duality of the dwarf, whose love, unlike Tristan and Isolde, couldn't be realized be realized even in death. The lively, suggestive spanish dances also remembered me Debussy's Iberia and Rimsky-Korsakov's Capriccio espagnol.

Next stop, Eine florentinische Tragödie......
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Mirror Image

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 08, 2022, 05:11:33 AM
First listening to a Zemlinsky opera, Der Zwerg: such an outstanding work, I absolutely loved it! The music was impressive, very immersive and involving, and although the scene is rather static and without many changes, the orchestral texture and the timbric variations depicted brilliantly the intense, passionate feelings, what could be seen and what was kept hidden, with a powerful chromatism, but also sharper harmonies showing the tension and sufference of the inner essence of the human being; really striking. There was a great juxtaposition of real and illusive, between the colourful, bright, but at the same time cold and cruel, atmospheres of the royal court, and the tragic duality of the dwarf, whose love, unlike Tristan and Isolde, couldn't be realized be realized even in death. The lively, suggestive spanish dances also remembered me Debussy's Iberia and Rimsky-Korsakov's Capriccio espagnol.

Next stop, Eine florentinische Tragödie......

8) Lovely, Ilaria. Glad you enjoyed Der Zwerg. I'm going to have to revisit this opera as it's been quite some time since I've heard it. Hope you enjoy Eine florentinische Tragödie as well. This opera is much more Expressionistic.

Lisztianwagner

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2022, 06:28:02 AM
8) Lovely, Ilaria. Glad you enjoyed Der Zwerg. I'm going to have to revisit this opera as it's been quite some time since I've heard it. Hope you enjoy Eine florentinische Tragödie as well. This opera is much more Expressionistic.

I have, immensely, "ein prachtvolles Werk" ;D Agreed, Eine florentinische Tragödie swings between a great chromatism, dissonant counterpoint and harmonies taken to extremes that are echoes of Mahler and Strauss, and a more modern style; its anxious and elusive tonal language doesn't appear thorugh either piercing tensions or breaking solutions, but it is suspended, with shading lines. Anyway the result is terribly beautiful.
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Mirror Image

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 08, 2022, 08:42:01 AM
I have, immensely, "ein prachtvolles Werk" ;D Agreed, Eine florentinische Tragödie swings between a great chromatism, dissonant counterpoint and harmonies taken to extremes that are echoes of Mahler and Strauss, and a more modern style; its anxious and elusive tonal language doesn't appear thorugh either piercing tensions or breaking solutions, but it is suspended, with shading lines. Anyway the result is terribly beautiful.

Excellent! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'll probably revisit these works or, at least, Der Zwerg because I remember thoroughly enjoying this one a lot. Perhaps when I'm off the next three days.

Lisztianwagner

Some thoughts about Zemlinsky's Sinfonietta: it has become one of my favourite pieces of this composer, such a wonderful, marvelous work, showing a brilliant inventiveness for the rich musical texture, a mastery of development of the thematic variations from thin motifs as well as a great timbric variety; the tonality is never broken, but it is taken to extremes till almost to shade off in some parts. The fast beginning of the first movement is based on a four-tone motif that builds a quick introduction and that opens to a first expressive descending theme; then a second theme as a variation of the four-tones takes back and develops the introduction with a thrilling, powerfully beautiful phrasing, which also has echoes of the viennese dances, in an ironic way of mahlerian influence. The deep, evocative second movement has great intensity and continues with a gloomy, melancholic atmosphere, underlined by floating passages in ostinato, never at full orchestra (apart from some points where it bursts out with energy before rapidly diminishing), but often with orchestral sections solo or even solo instruments. There's great intensity in the third movement too, which combines powerful, restless parts with slower, but passionate and lyrical ones, always weaved together by a splendid phrasing. Really a little musical jewel.
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Lisztianwagner

Speaking about the Sinfonietta, here's a very particular recording, the 1940 Mitropoulos performance. The sound quality is not excellent, but anyway it's worth listening since it's a historical recording, the radio broadcast of the American premiere of the composition (which was also listened by Schoenberg).

https://www.youtube.com/v/yxWXSiEJU-8
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

kyjo

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on July 16, 2022, 01:27:38 PM
Some thoughts about Zemlinsky's Sinfonietta: it has become one of my favourite pieces of this composer, such a wonderful, marvelous work, showing a brilliant inventiveness for the rich musical texture, a mastery of development of the thematic variations from thin motifs as well as a great timbric variety; the tonality is never broken, but it is taken to extremes till almost to shade off in some parts. The fast beginning of the first movement is based on a four-tone motif that builds a quick introduction and that opens to a first expressive descending theme; then a second theme as a variation of the four-tones takes back and develops the introduction with a thrilling, powerfully beautiful phrasing, which also has echoes of the viennese dances, in an ironic way of mahlerian influence. The deep, evocative second movement has great intensity and continues with a gloomy, melancholic atmosphere, underlined by floating passages in ostinato, never at full orchestra (apart from some points where it bursts out with energy before rapidly diminishing), but often with orchestral sections solo or even solo instruments. There's great intensity in the third movement too, which combines powerful, restless parts with slower, but passionate and lyrical ones, always weaved together by a splendid phrasing. Really a little musical jewel.

Excellent analysis, Ilaria! It's been a few years since I've heard the Sinfonietta, but I remember thinking very highly of it. As you say, it shows Zemlinsky exploring darker, more harmonically ambiguous waters than his earlier works, if not to the degree that, say, his colleagues in the 2nd Viennese School did. Do you have a favorite recording?
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

Lisztianwagner

Quote from: kyjo on August 10, 2022, 07:15:54 PM
Excellent analysis, Ilaria! It's been a few years since I've heard the Sinfonietta, but I remember thinking very highly of it. As you say, it shows Zemlinsky exploring darker, more harmonically ambiguous waters than his earlier works, if not to the degree that, say, his colleagues in the 2nd Viennese School did. Do you have a favorite recording?

Thanks, Kyle! Yes, despite his great friendship with the Second Viennese School, he never followed their path to atonality and dodecaphony; nonetheless the tonal structures of his late works clearly showed Schönberg's influence, being darker, tenser, and hanging in the balance between tonal and atonal (like also, for example, in the 3rd and 4th String Quartets).
About Zemlinsky's Sinfonietta, my favourite recording is the Conlon/Gürzenich-Orchestre Köln, there the orchestral colour and dynamics are perfectly handled, with a full, clear sound and excellent tempi; but I also like the Dausgaard/DNRSO very much for its power and intensity.
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Lisztianwagner

#193
Some thoughts about Zemlinsky's String Quartet No. 2: it is absolutely a haunting and thrilling composition, and quite modern for Zemlinsky's style, which sounds very influenced by Schönberg's music about the structure and the harmonies, although it doesn't break up with tonality, even if it reaches the extremes, with a sense of suspense and indecision in keeping the step and crossing the line. The piece doesn't sound clearly divided into movements, but more a single formal block and it flows on without solution of continuity, full of tensions, anxieties and harmonic distorsions, alternating glimpses of calm to restless, passionate passages bursting into strain climaxes that rapidly fade down; it shows a marvelous use of the variety of timbres (with the strings always able to be very expressive) and rhythms, with sudden accelerations broken by following distensions, to evoke a dark and dissonant atmosphere, which is absolutely mesmerizing anyway and can deeply capture and impress; but also rich, articulated, yet animated textures, that, despite the density, proceed through continuous transformations and elaborations of the thematic lines in a very inventive development of the music and give the structure a great flexibility.

I think the LaSalle Quartet recording is the best for Zemlinsky's 2nd String Quartet (as well as for all the Zemlisky Quartets), but the Schoenberg Quartet is superb too.
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 24, 2022, 09:21:51 AM
Some thoughts about Zemlinsky's String Quartet No. 2: it is absolutely a haunting and thrilling work, and quite modern for Zemlinsky's style, which sounds very influenced by Schönberg's music about the structure and the harmonies, although it doesn't break up with tonality, even if it reaches the extremes, with a sense of suspense and indecision in keeping the step and crossing the line. The piece doesn't sound clearly divided into movements, but more a single formal block and it flows on without solution of continuity, full of tensions, anxieties and harmonic distorsions, alternating glimpses of calm to restless, passionate passages bursting into strain climaxes that rapidly fade down; it shows a marvelous use of the variety of timbres (with the strings always able to be very  expressive) and rhythms, with sudden accelerations broken by following distensions, to evoke a dark and dissonant atmosphere, which is absolutely mesmerizing anyway and can deeply capture and impress; but also rich, articulated, yet animated textures, that, despite the density, proceed through continuous transformations and elaborations of the thematic lines in a very inventive development of the music and give the structure a great flexibility.

I think the LaSalle Quartet recording is the best for Zemlinsky's 2nd String Quartet (as well as for all the Zemlisky Quartets), but the Schoenberg Quartet is superb too.

Great description of the piece!  I guess most people "learnt" this work via the LaSalle set on DG - the playing is great but the recording shows its age I think.  Recently(ish!) I was very impressed with the Escher Quartet's cycle on Naxos - stunning ensemble playing and very well recorded - do dip your toe if you don't know those performances already.

Lisztianwagner

Quote from: Roasted Swan on September 24, 2022, 10:57:37 AM
Great description of the piece!  I guess most people "learnt" this work via the LaSalle set on DG - the playing is great but the recording shows its age I think.  Recently(ish!) I was very impressed with the Escher Quartet's cycle on Naxos - stunning ensemble playing and very well recorded - do dip your toe if you don't know those performances already.

I think the 2013 remastered version refreshed the sound quality; that one is an excellent set and the pairing with the Second Viennese School makes it definitely worth having. I don't know the Escher Quartet's cycle, but I'll see if I can find on youtube or spotify!
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Symphonic Addict

This extraordinary recording of Lyrische Symphonie is unbelievably gorgeous. It knocked my socks off!

Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

vandermolen

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 19, 2023, 07:23:49 PMThis extraordinary recording of Lyrische Symphonie is unbelievably gorgeous. It knocked my socks off!


Great to know - I love that work.
Always good to see the return of my favourite thread title!
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Lisztianwagner

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 19, 2023, 07:23:49 PMThis extraordinary recording of Lyrische Symphonie is unbelievably gorgeous. It knocked my socks off!


Completely agree, Sinopoli's recording is powerfully poignant, but also intimate and contemplative; the passionate atmosphere created by the orchestral playing is so beautifully immersive, it deeply captures. Voigt and Terfel are magnificent, their voices perfectly match the musical textures. It is certainly one of the best performances for the Lyrische Symphonie in my opinion.
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

brewski

#199
Tomorrow, Feb. 22 at 10:00 am (EST), WDR Symphony Orchestra will broadcast Zemlinsky's Die Seejungfrau, conducted by Ingo Metzmacher. The performance was recorded Jan. 13, 2024 at the Kölner Philharmonie.


-Bruce
"I set down a beautiful chord on paper—and suddenly it rusts."
—Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998)