Granville Bantock (1868-1946)

Started by vandermolen, April 19, 2007, 04:30:33 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Lethe on January 12, 2011, 02:20:37 AM
I was just browsing Bantock's Wikipedia entry. How dreadfully depressing how much of his music is unrecorded. Where labels are now beginning to scrape the barrel with, say, Bax's output, Bantock has entire choral "symphonies" and reams of orchestral music untouched by major recording labels (and yet where Chandos recording Omar Khayyam was laudable, I doubt it will be a money spinner) :'(

I don't think this should be any surprise. There's still a large number of Villa-Lobos works that haven't even been performed. Major labels are only after what sells now. How many damn Beethoven symphony cycles do we really need on the market? Come on!  ::)  Thank goodness Vernon Handley recorded what I think is an outstanding set. We're lucky to have what we have.

Lethevich

His revival was a minor miracle, although it is a shame that it has somewhat faltered (Hyperion boxing their series no doubt indicates it has come to an end). An intriguing possibility thrown up by Wikipedia: every one of Bantock's concerante works is either for or involving a cello. That's a whole disc worth of potentially neat tone-poems-with-a-soloist if his Sapphic Poem is anything to go by. I am also curious as to whether any of them are in his "heroic" style - perhaps a counterpart to Strauss' Don Quixote?

I have recently been listening to one of my all-time favourite CDs, the Hyperion disc with the Celtic and Hebridean symphonies. The Hebridean one is frequently considered to be his finest symphony, but I find much of it lacking the serene movement of the Celtic - I tend to find myself lost between a handfull of admittedly wonderful, noble themes. With the Celtic there is a very strong narrative pull throughout.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Lethe on January 12, 2011, 06:21:20 AMI have recently been listening to one of my all-time favourite CDs, the Hyperion disc with the Celtic and Hebridean symphonies. The Hebridean one is frequently considered to be his finest symphony, but I find much of it lacking the serene movement of the Celtic - I tend to find myself lost between a handfull of admittedly wonderful, noble themes. With the Celtic there is a very strong narrative pull throughout.


I agree that the Hebridean isn't as fine as his Celtic, but I think it's still a good symphony. I actually loved that very short piece on that disc The Sea Reivers. This has a Straussian like charm and I just love when those french horns play those long lines to signal the eruption that is about to happen within the orchestra towards the end of the piece. Absolutely priceless. :)

Lethevich

It's surprising that (iirc) that piece was culled from the Hebridean symphony, where it would've been a highlight. The Sea Reivers is the piece I use to re-test my house's music setup whenever somebody invariably moves the furniture around.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Mirror Image

#84
Quote from: Lethe on January 12, 2011, 08:36:50 AM
It's surprising that (iirc) that piece was culled from the Hebridean symphony, where it would've been a highlight. The Sea Reivers is the piece I use to re-test my house's music setup whenever somebody invariably moves the furniture around.

Why is it that the last movement of A Celtic Symphony stirs up all these feelings inside of me? Like, for example, being complete as a human being and with knowing the noble cause of helping others and being dedicated to that cause is why we are put here? Anyway, the first time I heard this work, I thought I walked into a dream or something, because this was music I had thought about, but didn't know it existed. Bax touched on the Celtic thing, but Bantock really did a beautiful thing with this symphony.

I guess what I just wrote above is really stupid...I'll go back into my hole now and never speak of this again. :-X

Lethevich

:) There is a certain "rightness" to the piece, the constant slow forward movement, the perfect arch in which the themes are placed at key moments for the greatest impact (including the surging final indexed section, with a serenity like a mountain stream). Without the symphony, and specifically the quality of the performance, I wouldn't rate that Hyperion CD anywhere near so highly.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

haydnguy

Quote from: vandermolen on April 05, 2009, 03:23:25 AM
HMV in Bond Street (London) has the Hyperion boxed set in their sale at £25. This is very good value, as there must be 6CDs I think. Nice new cover art too  :o

This is gorgeous, gorgeous music.

cilgwyn

I have the Downes recording of the 'Pagan Symphony'.not because it's a better performance than the Handley,but because I like to hear other interpretations of a work,I like Downes,and because I prefer the couplings. I have to say 'Fifine at the Fair' is pleasent enough,but a bit of a snoozefest as far as I'm concerned. Also,the couplings of the Bax Northern Ballads & 'Tintagel' seem more appropriate with in terms of atmosphere and imagery. Downe's handling of the 'Dance of the Satyrs' is a bit strange! Overall,he seems to take a more lesiurely approach to the work. it makes an interesting alternative now and again & makes me wish Downes could have had a go at a proper Bantock cd recording,but there's no doubt the Handley version is the one to go for!
  I hope I haven't offended anyone who enjoys 'Fifine'! (Funnily enough,despite the sound quality I think I actually preferred the cut Beecham recording in a way).
  I also have the Intaglio cd. The sound quality is pretty awful to say the least,but if you are an admirer of Bantock or/and a completionist it's worth a hearing. It sounds a bit like someone had a reel to reel tape recorder at the end of the concert hall. (Hopefully the original set up was a bit better) Clear enough to follow,'if yer know wot i mean' but,erm,remote!!!
   I share some of Lethe's feelings about the current disinterest in Bantock. I suggest having a peep at the Chandos forum. According to postings by the MC himself Chandos ARE currently looking at the possibility of further recordings.

cilgwyn

#88
You can see the reply on the Forum if you click on Page 2 & look for the 'Bantock' post,(as might be expected). No 'announcement' as yet,sadly,but apparently they've had to to review all their current projects,understandably,due to the untimely death of Richard Hickox and the passing of Vernon Handley. I gather they are showing interest in Bantock's contemporary,the 'Cockney Wagner' too!!!! (I really SHOULDN'T call Holbrooke that,should I?!)

vandermolen

I too have three recordings of the Pagan Symphony - one of Bantock's finest works I think. The Handley CD is my favourite.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

It's difficult to see how the Downes could ever be a favourite. Although,if the Handley had never been recorded I think I would have been pretty happy with it!
The worst Bantock performance I have hears is the Marco Polo of the 'Hebridean'. When I got the Handley the brass seemed to thunder out. On the MP recording you could hardly hear them. Still,at least they tried I suppose. But such unfortunate timing (for them).
I seem to recall the Hull Youth SO had a go as as well.
The 'Pagan Symphony' is marvellous. I love the way Bantock sweeps towards the finale. It's so exciting with those flourishes from the brass and the thunder of the timpani. No wonder Elgar was so impressed. I used to have the cd on full blast years ago.Thankfully I'm a much more considerate person now!


cilgwyn

#91
I wonder if we'll ever get some Bantock at the Proms? Well we've got Bax & Brian this year,so I don't see why not. The 'Pagan Symphony', 'Sappho',or the 'Celtic Symphony' would be great.

cilgwyn

I was VERY pleased to see the Granville Bantock society has now got a website. Most of it,appears to be 'under construction',however, but,I presume that it hasn't been up long! Apparently,the site will be "continually expanding to accomodate the wealth of material and information that is available."

http://www.granvillebantock.com/index.html

Hope the link works. If not,it's there! ;D

J.Z. Herrenberg

The link works. Nice to see a younger (?) generation of Bantocks keeping the legacy alive.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Albion

Yes, it's good to see that the Bantock Society (in its third incarnation) is becoming active again. The loss of Vernon Handley was grievous in terms of the recording of many British composers (he was scheduled to begin work on Holbrooke and Cowen for Chandos), but as has already been mentioned in this thread we are enormously fortunate that Hyperion took the risk of producing six wonderful discs and Chandos gave us a first-rate (almost complete) Omar Khayyam under his baton. Albany supplied fine recordings of the unaccompanied choral symphonies Atalanta in Calydon and The Vanity of Vanities, although the BBC Singers cannot match the weight of the sheer number of singers that Bantock ideally desired, and Regent has issued the choral suite A Pageant of Human Life, often wrongly termed the third choral symphony.

The best of the orchestral music has, in all truth, been covered but a shortlist of works urgently in need of recording would be

The Time-Spirit (1904) poem for chorus and orchestra
Sea Wanderers (1907) poem for chorus and orchestra
The Great God Pan (1915) choral ballet for soli, chorus and orchestra
The Seal-Woman (1924), Celtic folk opera in two acts
The Pilgrim's Progress (1928) for soli, chorus and orchestra

I would certainly rate all of these higher than the elephantine The Song of Songs (1912-22), but am equally pleased that extracts from this have been made available by Hyperion (and in a deleted historical broadcast issued by Dutton).

:)
A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it. (SG, 1922)

cilgwyn

No less than four! And some fine names there. Bjorn Bantock! Sounds like he threw in the tennis! ;D I was a member for a while,back in the late eighties/early nineties,I think? The journal was quite substantial. A good read,in fact! I recall issues devoted to Sappho & the Pagan symphony,I think? But it's a while back,now. Unfortunately,I didn't hang onto my copies. At the time,a complete recording of Omar Khayyam was a bit of a pipe dream! Not sure I will be rejoining at the moment. I'm not quite as into Bantock as I was then. Not that I don't enjoy his music;it's just that my tastes have expanded & there's enough going out of my account,already! :(
  It would be nice to see some more Bantock,though. There appears to have been a lull since the Handley/Hyperion recordings.
  With respect to non Handley Bantock,I DO rather like the Edward Downes performance,of the 'Pagan Symphony', on the defunct BBC Radio Classics,label. While,this isn't most people's favourite performance,I think it is rather good & it must have been quite an 'ear opener' to have heard this performance,on the radio,when it was originally broadcast. Having said that,I must confess,the other reason I play it allot,is because of the couplings;Bax's 'Tintagel' & 'Northern Ballads No's 2 & 3. These are among my favourite Bax tone poems (well,Tintagel would be,I suppose!) and,in my humble opinion,the atmosphere & mood of those pieces go allot better with Bantock's 'Pagan Symphony',which I must confess here,isn't a favourite of mine. Having said that,I'll have another go this week. Maybe,I will change my mind! Like some other people,I got to know this,originally,via the Beecham recording. The Pagan & Hebridean Symphonies came as a bit of a suprise after that. I enjoyed 'Fifine' at the time,but the symphonies were so different. Not wanting to knock 'Fifine',I do think that a Beecham recording of the more dramatic 'Pagan',or more taughtly structured 'Celtic Symphony' might have done more to enhance Bantock's reputation. Although,maybe not THAT much (at the time).Composers like Bantock were really in the doldrums,back then. We complain about neglected composers now,but think what it was like,then!
  Going back to Downes,he also made a recording of Boughton's lovely 'Deidre Symphony',which is also available on BBC Radio Classics. I have loved that work,ever since I heard the original performance,back in the 1980's. Anyway,I must refrain from turning this into a Boughton thread! ;D

Apologies Albion,I saw you're post,but I'm not the best typist & I decided to go ahead....... ;D

cilgwyn

#96
A 'mouth watering' list,Albion! The 'Seal Woman' has got to be a particular,'must'! But then again,what about all of them? ;D!!! A few of his lighter orchestral works could make a pleasent cd,though & I wouldn't mind hearing Lalla Rookh! (Hope the spelling is correct. I just had a quick peek at Wikipedia! :o :() I hope it hasn't been mislaid!!! :(
  I wonder if the Regent Regent cd is an improvement on the Albany cd? I must admit that was one of my Bantock disappointments. The actual forces used aside,I felt it could have been done better. Having said that,maybe I just need to listen to it again. I sold my copy to the lady with the 'record stall' in the market! :o

As a fan of neglected English opera,particularly from the first three decades,or so, of the last century,'The Seal Woman' is high on my list of opera's I would love to hear. But so is Holbrooke's 'The Cauldron of Annwn' cycle (or just one of them). I was listening to excerpts from 'Bronwen',earlier. Darkly dramatic,a really first rate complete recording of that opera,could really help to change people's perspective on that composer. Oh and,let's not forget Boughton's Arthurian cycle!!! ;D Havergal Brian's 'The Tiger's.................
 
It is extroadinary to have so many of Bantock's major works on cd,in such marvellous performances. I recall an article on the 'English Musical Renaissance', by Michael Kennedy,in Gramophone,back in the eighties (I think) dismissing Bantock in one brief sentence.
Who'd have thought?!!! :o :)

Albion

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 22, 2012, 02:19:02 PMThe 'Seal Woman' has got to be a particular,'must'!

This lovely opera (really a chamber opera) would not be too extravagantly expensive to revive as it is scored for a modest ensemble of flute, cor anglais, clarinet, horn, timpani, harp and strings. Bantock structures the score around actual Hebridean folk melodies, as collected and 'arranged' by Marjorie Kennedy-Fraser (1857-1930).

The story is slight, but poignant - a legend (related by an old woman) tells of seals that can turn into mortal women, and the voices of a Seal-Woman and her Seal-Sister are heard. Fishermen then approach the island and the Isleman remembers a Seal-Woman that he encountered in the distant past. The Seal-Woman and her sister appear, and the Isleman takes their sea-robes from them, without which they are forever trapped in human form. Eventually persuaded to return the robe of the sister, he declares his love for the Seal-Woman, and she agrees to go with him.

Seven years later (in Act 2), the couple have had a child, Morag, but the Seal-Woman wishes to return to her original form. Three swans predict that she will only be free when her daughter discovers the sea-robe which has been hidden away. Morag finds it and brings it to her mother. Returning home, the Isleman sees his wife fling herself from the cliff into the sea, and he and his daughter listen to the Seal-Woman singing as she swims away.

:)
A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it. (SG, 1922)

cilgwyn

Lovely,indeed! Simple and evocative. If only more operatic storylines could be as straightforward as that. It's simplicity reminds me of Savitri,the old Decca recording of which I listened to,recently! Of course,the actual libretto itself,may be more awkward,'of it's time',as they say. But that would be part of it's charm. And Gerontius isn't exactly a literary masterpiece,come to think of it;although it 'does the job!' Marjorie Kennedy-Fraser's work has attracted to some criticism,in some quarters,but I assume (!) the quality ofBantock's imagination surmounts it.?!
Either way,I can't wait to hear it! ;D

vandermolen

I am going to see the 'Celtic Symphony' at the Proms in London next Wednesday. Probably the first and last time I will hear any of Bantock's music live.  Can't wait!
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).