The football (soccer) thread

[Irons]

There was an argument raised by some Chelsea fans in the last few days that "if Abramovich has always been so bad news and dodgy, how in hell did the authorities/FA allow him to buy a Premier League club in the first place"? Which is a fair query to some extent, similar to how did we allow Russian oligarchs to have such power over London/UK government over the last few years.

Very nice story about Yarmolenko. The only Ukrainian currently playing in the French league (Danylo Ignatenko) signed for my club (Bordeaux) right at the end of the January window, with his family initially remaining in Ukraine. After the war kicked off, there were reports that our chairman (who salvaged the club from liquidation last summer) was pushing his contacts in Eastern Europe to bring the family back to Bordeaux asap. He managed to bring them to France during last week, just a couple of days before the player's birthday.

At least there was not a precedent, Olivier. The same could not be said of the Saudis who mass executed 81 poor souls on Saturday and are the new owners of Newcastle United.

Leaving aside issues of fit and proper owners how can it be right on competition terms that a state owns a Premier League club. As the co-owner of West Ham, David Gold once said "I own 140 sex shops (Ann Summers), Sheikh Mansour (owner of Manchester City) owns 140 oil wells." 

[Papy Oli]

114 minutes on the clock.

I assume Irons/Lol is in the West Ham crowd right now going berserk, shirtless, after Yarmolenko's goal.

Give us a wave, Irons !! 

[Papy Oli]

Forever blowiiiiing buuuubbles... 

*steady on, Lol !!*

[Irons]

Forever blowiiiiing buuuubbles... 

*steady on, Lol !!*

What a night! The tension and atmosphere could be cut with a knife. Arrived home 12.45 am exhausted, didn't sleep really and then watched a recording of the whole game, after which viewed the quarter/semi final draw live. Well Olivier, the next step on the cockney boys European tour is from your home country, Olmpique Lyonnais. I have my ticket already, home not away sadly. If by some freak of nature we get past Lyon, who is waiting in the wings? Barcelona! Little old West Ham walking out at the Nou Camp.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

What a night! The tension and atmosphere could be cut with a knife. Arrived home 12.45 am exhausted, didn't sleep really and then watched a recording of the whole game, after which viewed the quarter/semi final draw live. Well Olivier, the next step on the cockney boys European tour is from your home country, Olmpique Lyonnais. I have my ticket already, home not away sadly. If by some freak of nature we get past Lyon, who is waiting in the wings? Barcelona! Little old West Ham walking out at the Nou Camp.

Sounds like you had quite the night Irons! 

PD

[Papy Oli]

What a night! The tension and atmosphere could be cut with a knife. Arrived home 12.45 am exhausted, didn't sleep really and then watched a recording of the whole game, after which viewed the quarter/semi final draw live. Well Olivier, the next step on the cockney boys European tour is from your home country, Olmpique Lyonnais. I have my ticket already, home not away sadly. If by some freak of nature we get past Lyon, who is waiting in the wings? Barcelona! Little old West Ham walking out at the Nou Camp.

What a great draw for you guys. Please walk freely over Lyon, I won't mind, they are not in a great phase in the league at the moment. 

[Irons]

What a great draw for you guys. Please walk freely over Lyon, I won't mind, they are not in a great phase in the league at the moment. 

If it wasn't for a Frenchman we would be quite possibly out of the competition and not playing Lyon. With the score at 0 0 El Nasri, the Saville striker hit a shot from point blank range. How Areola saved it is beyond belief. A turning point deflating Saville and inspiring us. It has to be said, Alphonse Areola is one cool guy. 

[Papy Oli]

We watched the "Arsene Wenger - Invincible" documentary last night on AMZ prime (also available on DVD).



Had high expectations of this one as a generally Arsenal supporting household, this turned out somewhat disappointing overall actually.

Stylishly done but too much of the documentary was spent on the already re-hashed "Invincibles" 2004 season while really brushing over too briefly on some lesser known parts of his life which would have been of greater interest: His formative years in Alsace, his spell in Monaco, his spell in Japan, how he revolutionised the approach to football, etc.

The players intervening were OK (Henry, Wrighty, Bergkamp, Dixon, Keown, Pires, Petit, etc..).

The major positive aspect for us was the valuable input they got from Alex Ferguson, making it very clear that beyond the rivalries and the tabloid headlines, there was (or at least is now) a massive respect between both those "dinosaurs of the games" as he calls it. His perspective was worthy of its time.

Wenger's own view on the latter "difficult" years was a good insight but it could also have been expanded on.

Sadly, it didn't make up for the eventual lingering feeling of seeing a 90-min motivational speech on the after-dinner speaking circuit...     

[Irons]

Amazing fact with two weeks to go before the transfer window closes more spent in the Premier League then La Liga, Bundesliga and Serie A combined!

Club by club's spend -

Chelsea £175.89m
Spurs £126m
Arsenal £115.7m
West Ham £115.1m
Nottingham Forest £111m
Man City £107m
Liverpool £99.2m
Leeds £89.9m
Man Utd £69.6m
Wolves £69.5m
Newcastle £62m
Southampton £60m
Fulham £56.4m
Aston Villa £46m
Brentford £45.8m
Crystal Palace £32.8m
Brighton £32.1m
Everton £34m
Bournemouth £23.3m
Leicester No spend

Historically there is plenty of dealing in the last hours before the transfer window closes. I expect the above figures to rise appreciably.   

[Valentino]

FTR I'm not related to City #9. Haaland/Håland is a very common farm name in that area of Norway.

[Irons]

Steven Gerrard sacked, Lampard could be next. An odd truism that great players make poor managers and average at best players make outstanding managers, Mourinho and Wenger for example.

[vandermolen]

Steven Gerrard sacked, Lampard could be next. An odd truism that great players make poor managers and average at best players make outstanding managers, Mourinho and Wenger for example.

I largely agree with this. I think that it can, in general terms, be applied to artists and composers in that the greatest ones are invariably not the greatest teachers, as they can suffocate the originality of their pupils. One of the greatest sculptors, the Romanian Brancusi, for example, refused to study under Rodin stating that 'acorns don't thrive under great oak trees.'

[Papy Oli]

Arteta is doing just fine and long may it continue... 

[Irons]

I largely agree with this. I think that it can, in general terms, be applied to artists and composers in that the greatest ones are invariably not the greatest teachers, as they can suffocate the originality of their pupils. One of the greatest sculptors, the Romanian Brancusi, for example, refused to study under Rodin stating that 'acorns don't thrive under great oak trees.'

Good point. In fact there is an example of that I posted today on the vinyl thread. I hope I'm not doing a disservice to Jiri Hlinka when I say he is not of the highest echelon of pianists but I believe his pupil Leif Ove Andes is.

Arteta is doing just fine and long may it continue... 

Fine cultured player but not I think in the Garrard/Lampard class.

[Papy Oli]

Fine cultured player but not I think in the Garrard/Lampard class.

Fair comment of course, but in the presence of a West Ham fan and a Chelsea fan, it was difficult not to be facetious 

Simeone maybe is one that has had a successful transition ? To what extent did Zidane make it as well, I don't know, he would need to be seen again with a "lesser" team to judge (a bit like Pep). Laurent Blanc was successful for a short 5-6 years (Titles with Bordeaux then PSG) but it was well known and documented all the work was actually his assistant's (who, case in point helped Bordeaux and other clubs since on his own in some lean years - Blanc then disappeared for ten years or so until last month with joining Lyon).

Would Deschamps count as a national manager ?

We'd have to ask Jeffrey about Gullit, Vialli, etc...

It is indeed more often disappointment than not in most cases.

[Irons]

Fair comment of course, but in the presence of a West Ham fan and a Chelsea fan, it was difficult not to be facetious 

Simeone maybe is one that has had a successful transition ? To what extent did Zidane make it as well, I don't know, he would need to be seen again with a "lesser" team to judge (a bit like Pep). Laurent Blanc was successful for a short 5-6 years (Titles with Bordeaux then PSG) but it was well known and documented all the work was actually his assistant's (who, case in point helped Bordeaux and other clubs since on his own in some lean years - Blanc then disappeared for ten years or so until last month with joining Lyon).

Would Deschamps count as a national manager ?

We'd have to ask Jeffrey about Gullit, Vialli, etc...

It is indeed more often disappointment than not in most cases.

I don't know of Simeone's playing career but would love him at my club. The rest you mention, no thanks.

The one manager that is impressing me at the present time is Michael Beale. QPR top of the Championship! Impressive.

[vandermolen]

Fair comment of course, but in the presence of a West Ham fan and a Chelsea fan, it was difficult not to be facetious 

Simeone maybe is one that has had a successful transition ? To what extent did Zidane make it as well, I don't know, he would need to be seen again with a "lesser" team to judge (a bit like Pep). Laurent Blanc was successful for a short 5-6 years (Titles with Bordeaux then PSG) but it was well known and documented all the work was actually his assistant's (who, case in point helped Bordeaux and other clubs since on his own in some lean years - Blanc then disappeared for ten years or so until last month with joining Lyon).

Would Deschamps count as a national manager ?

We'd have to ask Jeffrey about Gullit, Vialli, etc...

It is indeed more often disappointment than not in most cases.

I think that Ruud Gullit is an exception (sort-of) to my rule as he was a successful player and manager. Nobody lasts long at Chelsea as they always get sacked. I think that it was a big mistake to get rid of Thomas Tuchel (Di Matteo is another example).

[springrite]

Arteta is doing just fine and long may it continue... 

Yeah!

[Irons]

I think that Ruud Gullit is an exception (sort-of) to my rule as he was a successful player and manager. Nobody lasts long at Chelsea as they always get sacked. I think that it was a big mistake to get rid of Thomas Tuchel (Di Matteo is another example).

Gullit also got the tin-tac at Newcastle.

[vandermolen]

Gullit also got the tin-tac at Newcastle.

Good point.

Going back to my artists/composers point, if you look at the great Impressionist painters, Monet, Renoir etc, none of their teachers (Gleyre etc) are now highly regarded artists although they were able to liberate their students' talents. I'd argue the same for Stanford and Vaughan Williams or Steinberg (whose music I do rate highly) and Shostakovich.

I realise that we are not supposed to discuss music here but that is not really the point of my argument about great teachers not necessarily being great artists and great artists not necessarily being great teachers (Jacques Louis David's only really successful pupil was Ingres who had a strong enough talent and personality to avoid being suffocated by J L David's suffocating presence).