The football (soccer) thread

[Irons]

Didn't Boyce score the winning goal in the 1964 Cup Final (Hammers 3 Preston NE 2)?

Correct. Howard Kendall, who was later to play and manage Everton, was at that time at PNE was the youngest player to play in a Cup Final.

[vandermolen]

Correct. Howard Kendall, who was later to play and manage Everton, was at that time at PNE was the youngest player to play in a Cup Final.

For some reason that is the earliest Cup Final that I have the clearest memory of. I think that I kept a scrapbook in which I glued relevant newspaper articles and pictures about it. I was 8 at the time. I remember supporting PNE (sorry!) as they were the underdogs. One of West Ham's goals was a bit flukey as it hit the crossbar, the post and then trickled over the line having hit the back of the goal-keeper (Kelly).

[Papy Oli]

What a mess! And all that because of one single idiot. 

Oh, brother! 

Quite! x 2 

[Irons]

How is that for a peculiar football evening:

Last night was the last game of the season in the French Ligue 2 (second division). For full fairness and equality between the clubs, the last 2-3 games are always played at the same time on the same day.

3 clubs are fighting for the top 2 promotion spots to Ligue 1:

Le Havre 72 pts
Metz 69 pts
and my club Bordeaux 69 pts (Goal difference of -3 compared to Metz)

Le Havre was up to 10 pts clear a few weeks ago and kept dropping points
Bordeaux was up to 9 points clear in second and kept dropping points
It all came down to last night's game.

For a bit of context, Bordeaux has been in steady sporting decline in the last decade when some dodgy American investors bought the club circa 2019. Last season, Bordeaux got relegated to Ligue 2 on the pitch but the mismanagement of the club and other internal tension and scandals took it to the brink of bankruptcy last July, with a looming liquidation and relegation to 5th tier football i.e the top tier of amateur football.

A buyer came through (a controversial one at that because he has bought other clubs on the brink before with some dodgy dealings, hence not a favourable reputation in the Ligue anyway) and bought the club last August. With only 2 days before the start of this season did he get the final confirmation from the league and financial authorities that we could play and play in Ligue 2 (and not further down). That meant selling our "best" (non-performing evidently) players and building the new team on mostly academy youngsters, a couple of seasoned players from Ligue 2 and a couple of key players that decided to stay at the club regardless to fight back, after accepting a 50% pay cut to help the club's finances (another 19 year old promising youngster reluctantly accepted to be sold to Southampton for 11 million euros, knowing that amount would definitely save his formative club).

The season felt like a miracle to us all if only for existing and it was a clean slate with the supporters now fully backing the mostly inexperienced team. it obviously took some time to gel and with lots of ups and downs, we eventually settled in the top three. Last bit of context, all season, for cost management reasons, the stadium capacity was kept at half, to 22K, still making it one of the biggest ligue 2 attendances.

To last night.

Knowing how important that last home game was, the stadium was sold to full attendance. 42,000 supporters filled the stadium with an atmosphere frankly not seen since we played PSG or Marseille in our better years. Some supporters even travelled from the USA, Canada or Asia to be at the game and supporting the team whatever happens, still clinging to hopes of promotion.

7.45pm kick off.

Le Havre plays at home against Dijon who fights to stay in ligue 2.
Metz at home plays against Bastia, currently 5th with nothing to play for.
Bordeaux plays in a sold out stadium against Rodez, who are also fighting to stay in Ligue 2.

Bordeaux has 5 or 6 clear chances in the first 15 minutes. still 0-0.

8.02 pm.
Rodez scores on a counter attack. 0-1. Sh!t happens, that's ok, long time to go. Cue Rodez players bundling up and celebrating in front of the Bordeaux  Kop. One Bordeaux "supporter" (from the kop association Admin team, at the time sorting a banner) somehow goes on the pitch and pushes the Rodez goal scorer to the ground. The player stays on the ground, even it looks inconspicuous. Game is stopped. The player lies down for several minutes and both teams are sent to the dressing rooms. As per the rules, If the game is stopped for more than 45 minutes it is definitely aborted and it is down to the Ligue authorities to decide the outcome or replay of the game or resuming from where it stopped at another date.

20.50
The game is definitely aborted. the Rodez player is off to hospital for concussion assessment. 42K  supporters in disbelief in the stadium. The Ligue communicates that they will take a decision/sanctions on... Monday. Our chairman makes a press conference explaining they will sue that Kop individual and also make any appeal to the Ligue on Monday.

Just around 9.45pm.

Le Havre is leading. they will be Champions. Dijon is going down.
Metz is leading too, they will finish second as it stands and go up too.

As for Bordeaux-Rodez, god knows. Because it is the last game of the season, it would seem unlikely to be replayed and is likely to be given as a default 3-0 win to Rodez. However (beside Bordeaux), one other club (Annecy) who is fighting to stay in Ligue 2 against Rodez wants our game to be resumed/replayed too because that default Rodez win would keep Rodez (and not them) up.  Quite a mess.

What that "supporter" did is unforgivable and unjustifiable. He should be banned from the stadium for life. Based on precedents, Bordeaux will probably get some point deductions for the start of next season, most likely a handful of home games behind closed doors too.

if the game is to be resumed/replayed in a few days after all, it is likely that Bordeaux will also get a 1 or 2 pts penalty for this season, so that even if we beat Rodez in that final game, we could not go up at all...while maintaining some sporting fairness for Rodez and Annecy.

For some perspective, if Bordeaux had gone up last night, they would have been breaking even financially for the start of the next season. Staying in Ligue 2, means starting the next season with a 15 million euros debt, meaning more jobs losses in the admin staff and selling some of our better players and re-weaken our team again.

You can imagine how distraught we felt last night and today. Having a club still, was a miracle for us. Fighting for promotion to the last day was a bonus. We would have accepted, albeit with the expected disappointment, to remain in Ligue 2 on the pitch...but not in last night's manner. It is heart-breaking, for the silly action of one individual, wrecking the party atmosphere and the excitement of long-suffering parents and children at the stadium. 

Now for the other oddity of the night.

As I said earlier, Le Havre was beating Dijon in the dying minutes, walking towards the Ligue 2 title.

With 30 seconds to go in injury time, due to a misunderstanding the Le Havre supporters invaded the pitch thinking they had won the game. Both teams had to go back to their dressing rooms. The game is stopped for around 20 minutes while the Havre captain and coach try to convince their supporters to go back into the terraces (note: The club had actually warned their supporters all week that any pitch invasion, even for the title, would mean lifetime bans for the individuals but also sanctions for the club!!)

Anyway, the supporters are back in their terraces eventually.

The game resumes.

There's 30 seconds left to play.

The referee whistle the official end of the game after 5 seconds.

Guess what... That's not the odd bit.

it's that bit: Only the Le Havre players ever came back on the pitch. The Dijon players did stay in their dressing room. And yet, the game resumed for 5 seconds.

Le Havre won 3-2. Cue another pitch invasion and actual title ceremony and celebrations.

not making sense to you ? Nope, nor me....

The Ligue has quite a cluster-fudge to sort out on Monday.

As a Bordeaux supporter, I am numb.

Sorry for that long post, it might be cathartic...

or not.






         

It only takes one idiot! More then one last night throwing plastic cups at a Fiorentina player when he took a corner. There is always one and last night he threw a vape which hit the Fiorentina player on the back of the head. When I saw the blood I froze fearing the game to be called off. Fair play to the guy as unlike your Rodex player he didn't make a meal of it and actually defused a potentially serious situation. 

[Irons]

For some reason that is the earliest Cup Final that I have the clearest memory of. I think that I kept a scrapbook in which I glued relevant newspaper articles and pictures about it. I was 8 at the time. I remember supporting PNE (sorry!) as they were the underdogs. One of West Ham's goals was a bit flukey as it hit the crossbar, the post and then trickled over the line having hit the back of the goal-keeper (Kelly).

Think I am a little bit older then you, Jeffrey. My earliest Cup memory is 1956 when a German goalkeeper Bert Troutman carried on playing for Man City with a broken neck! I thought the opponents were Newcastle United but on checking it was Birmingham City. Was a long time ago.    

[Florestan]

It only takes one idiot! More then one last night throwing plastic cups at a Fiorentina player when he took a corner. There is always one and last night he threw a vape which hit the Fiorentina player on the back of the head. When I saw the blood I froze fearing the game to be called off. Fair play to the guy as unlike your Rodex player he didn't make a meal of it and actually defused a potentially serious situation.

Indeed, kudos to him! But all such idiots should be promptly identified and banned for life, under penalty of a large fine, from attending any live sports event, not just football. There is no other way.

[Papy Oli]

It only takes one idiot! More then one last night throwing plastic cups at a Fiorentina player when he took a corner. There is always one and last night he threw a vape which hit the Fiorentina player on the back of the head. When I saw the blood I froze fearing the game to be called off. Fair play to the guy as unlike your Rodex player he didn't make a meal of it and actually defused a potentially serious situation.

Very sad all this... Don't know what to say anymore.

One Bordeaux player has actually posted pictures about this Fiorentina incident this morning and asked why your game did continue and not ours.

Using such a "whataboutism" doesn't actually sit right with me in itself (when one of "ours" is definitely at fault anyway)  but the inconsistency can still be puzzling.

[Irons]

Indeed, kudos to him! But all such idiots should be promptly identified and banned for life, under penalty of a large fine, from attending any live sports event, not just football. There is no other way.

They will get him and he will never set foot in a West Ham game again. Of course the club can expect sanctions from UEFA.

[DaveF]

Congratulations to West Ham!
I'm old enough to remember the 1964 Cup Final, featuring two very young players I think (of the top of my head, Sissons of West Ham and Kendall of Preston NE).

Oh dear, I feel scarcely out of nappies in such company - first one I remember is Man City - Leicester in 1969 (Bell, Lee, Summerbee, Tony Book - they would run rings round Gündogan, Haaland, Grealish & Co. any day).  Anyway, congratulations to the 'Appy 'Ammers - one can forgive the enthusiasm of the fan down the Commercial Road interviewed by the BBC - "We're champions of Europe!"

[Pohjolas Daughter]

They will get him and he will never set foot in a West Ham game again. Of course the club can expect sanctions from UEFA.

I caught bits and pieces of the game.  I do remember thinking "Why is this player's upper face/head being wrapped in medical wrap?" I didn't catch the incident but had noticed rubbish on the pitch.  Later on, I saw photos of the blood on him and was shocked and horrified.

On a side note, I've heard about tennis players receiving horrible comments on places like Twitter.  They're trying to use AI to filter things but as one young, talented and grand-slam winner (Sloane Stephens) has said (due to her own experience with social media), in so many words "they use asterisks to get through".

It's horrible.  It's abuse.  And it shouldn't be allowed.  How to stop it?

PD

[vandermolen]

Think I am a little bit older then you, Jeffrey. My earliest Cup memory is 1956 when a German goalkeeper Bert Troutman carried on playing for Man City with a broken neck! I thought the opponents were Newcastle United but on checking it was Birmingham City. Was a long time ago.    

That's a very famous story. I think that Trautmann may have been a POW in Britain. I was only 1 at the time.

I should perhaps mention that I did attend the 1966 World Cup Final     

[Florestan]

I should perhaps mention that I did attend the 1966 World Cup Final     

Outstanding, young man!

[Irons]

I caught bits and pieces of the game.  I do remember thinking "Why is this player's upper face/head being wrapped in medical wrap?" I didn't catch the incident but had noticed rubbish on the pitch.  Later on, I saw photos of the blood on him and was shocked and horrified.

On a side note, I've heard about tennis players receiving horrible comments on places like Twitter.  They're trying to use AI to filter things but as one young, talented and grand-slam winner (Sloane Stephens) has said (due to her own experience with social media), in so many words "they use asterisks to get through".

It's horrible.  It's abuse.  And it shouldn't be allowed.  How to stop it?

PD

The day is not long in coming when a football team march off field of play during a game due to one of their players receiving racist abuse from opposing fans.

[Iota]

That's a very famous story. I think that Trautmann may have been a POW in Britain. I was only 1 at the time.

Even I've heard of Bert Trautmann! There was slightly sentimental but very engaging biopic about him a while ago, called 'The Keeper'. An extraordinary life story, which would have broken many I think. I came away from the film with a great respect for him. 

I should perhaps mention that I did attend the 1966 World Cup Final     

Amazing that you were there! The closest I got was attempting to collect the Esso coins issued at the time. 

[vandermolen]

Even I've heard of Bert Trautmann! There was slightly sentimental but very engaging biopic about him a while ago, called 'The Keeper'. An extraordinary life story, which would have broken many I think. I came away from the film with a great respect for him. 

Amazing that you were there! The closest I got was attempting to collect the Esso coins issued at the time. 

I think that Esso coins may have been for the 1970 World Cup. I remember that they launched them before the squad was announced and so that they featured some players who were not selected!

[Iota]

I think that Esso coins may have been for the 1970 World Cup. I remember that they launched them before the squad was announced and so that they featured some players who were not selected!

Oh right, well that reveals the subterranean levels of my football knowledge pretty accurately.   
Nonetheless I remember that board so well (and with some nostalgia), thanks for putting it up. I never could seem to complete the collection no matter how many different petrol stations we visited, a sizeable frustration for me at the time.

[vandermolen]

Oh right, well that reveals the subterranean levels of my football knowledge pretty accurately.   
Nonetheless I remember that board so well (and with some nostalgia), thanks for putting it up. I never could seem to complete the collection no matter how many different petrol stations we visited, a sizeable frustration for me at the time.

I remember that as well. I ended up with multiple coins of the same player (usually not one of my favourites, like Colin Bell). However at the end you could send off for the ones that you were missing and they would send them to you. I was 15 at the time so a bit more savvy than I was in 1966. Somewhere in our attic, I suspect, is the completed set probably worth a billion pounds 

[Lisztianwagner]

Damn, what a pity!!  Man City won the Champions League and deserved to win, but Inter had chances to score and wasted them. Haaland was greatly stopped. We played at the best of our possibilities and we have nothing to regret......

[Iota]

I remember that as well. I ended up with multiple coins of the same player (usually not one of my favourites, like Colin Bell). However at the end you could send off for the ones that you were missing and they would send them to you. I was 15 at the time so a bit more savvy than I was in 1966. Somewhere in our attic, I suspect, is the completed set probably worth a billion pounds 

I was a bit younger than you and had no idea the complete collection was made available at the end! That's one serious dopamine opportunity I'm never getting back! My board got chucked out in one of my mother's house moves, which is perhaps why I got such a little surge of happiness seeing the image above.

[vandermolen]

I was a bit younger than you and had no idea the complete collection was made available at the end! That's one serious dopamine opportunity I'm never getting back! My board got chucked out in one of my mother's house moves, which is perhaps why I got such a little surge of happiness seeing the image above.

I think that I must have written to Esso or phoned them. I just remember that there was a way of asking them to send any missing players. Maybe there was something about it on the back of the board.

My mother threw my entire collection of Tintin books (hardback) out whilst I was at university - never forgave her  . I had to buy them all again as an adult.