The football (soccer) thread

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Madiel

#440
Quote from: Papy Oli on December 01, 2022, 01:55:54 AMDid you see that France lodged an appeal to FIFA to have their late equaliser reinstated ?! Even though the Griezmann offside was correct, the VAR Call was made after the final whistle and that is not allowed.

No, I didn't see that, I thought that the whistle had not actually been blown (the clock reaching the allotted time is not what ends the match). I don't have the recording any more to go check (though I could go stream the replay).

Who the hell cares, anyway? You won the group.

EDIT: I also find it very hard to believe that the referee actually would have blown the final whistle as well as having a VAR check. Those two actions seem fundamentally incompatible.
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Papy Oli

Quote from: Madiel on December 01, 2022, 02:07:48 AMNo, I didn't see that, I thought that the whistle had not actually been blown (the clock reaching the allotted time is not what ends the match). I don't have the recording any more to go check (though I could go stream the replay).

Who the hell cares, anyway? You won the group.

EDIT: I also find it very hard to believe that the referee actually would have blown the final whistle as well as having a VAR check. Those two actions seem fundamentally incompatible.


Not sure what there is to gain either for the French FA on this (other than some points for the FIFA ranking maybe, but that seems petty.. or the idea to be undefeated throughout the tournament in the unlikely event we go all the way ? Now, that would be peak French arrogance  :P ).

This was definitely after the final whistle because I read the main French TV channel broadcasting the game last night went straight to an ad break upon that whistle, with a score draw... and came back to live TV from the stadium... with a 1-0 loss... they took some flack for that untimely interruption ;D   
Olivier

Madiel

#442
Well no, that doesn't mean the referee had actually blown the FINAL whistle. That just means someone at a TV station believed it.

There are a whole lot of different whistle blows involved. I forget which match it was that an offside was right near the halfway line and people wrongly believed the referee was pointing to the kickoff spot. Maybe Ecuador v Senegal?

So even knowing that the referee blew his whistle is no kind of proof that he was intending to signal the end of the match.
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Papy Oli

Quote from: Madiel on December 01, 2022, 02:44:41 AMWell no, that doesn't mean the referee had actually blown the FINAL whistle. That just means someone at a TV station believed it.

There are a whole lot of different whistle blows involved. I forget which match it was that an offside was right near the halfway line and people wrongly believed the referee was pointing to the kickoff spot. Maybe Ecuador v Senegal?

So even knowing that the referee blew his whistle is no kind of proof that he was intending to signal the end of the match.

I have checked the end of the game stream on the BBC and you can hear the triple whistle for the end of the game, the English commentator saying full time as well...then about 15-20 seconds later, there's a shot of the referee then listening to his ear piece for the VAR call out.

Checking on l'Equipe article, the French channel launched the ad break just as the referee was shown listening to his earpiece, but after the end of the game...with their subsequent grovelling apologies  ;D

Still according to l'Equipe, the VAR rules states that the VAR can't be referred to if the game has resumed already unless it is relating to a player identity issue or a sending off issue. In this case, we do not see the game resuming at all on the BBC broadcast. You can just hear the final whistle while they are broadcasting replays of the goal. Not sure if there was actually a kick off after the goal (L'Equipe, however, mentions there was a Tunisian kick off again then the final whistle).

Still, ultimately, a petty appeal if anything.
Olivier

Madiel

#444
Well hang on, having VAR after a kick-off? That makes no sense either.

Edit: this page is helpful. https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/story/4820758/why-var-disallowed-griezmanns-goal-for-france-for-offside?platform=amp

Anyway... I need some sleep before finding out in the morning whether Belgium survived.
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Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Madiel on November 30, 2022, 07:07:14 PMEdit: Commentators have pointed out that the Polish goalkeeper has saved penalties in 2 matches, and this in itself is enough to make the difference in their group.
Interesting!

Quote from: Madiel on November 30, 2022, 07:08:32 PMActually watching at 2am is beyond me. Which is why I take leave from work to start at a more sensible time.
You really are a football fan!  ;D

Quote from: Papy Oli on December 01, 2022, 01:55:54 AMThat was dire but the 9 changes were necessary sadly. The number and calibre of the absentees through injury did show last night. There's really not much beyond the main 11. We were left with too many unexperienced players.

Did you see that France lodged an appeal to FIFA to have their late equaliser reinstated ?! Even though the Griezmann offside was correct, the VAR Call was made after the final whistle and that is not allowed. Maybe there will be a little bit of karma thrown back at Tunisia after all for their supporters booing the French anthem last night  >:D
:o  Oh, my!

Quote from: (: premont :) on November 30, 2022, 08:31:01 PMThat's right.
My sympathies to you re the results.  :(

PD

Papy Oli

Quote from: Madiel on December 01, 2022, 03:29:35 AMWell hang on, having VAR after a kick-off? That makes no sense either.

Edit: this page is helpful. https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/story/4820758/why-var-disallowed-griezmanns-goal-for-france-for-offside?platform=amp

Anyway... I need some sleep before finding out in the morning whether Belgium survived.

great article, thank you...and what a mess.. imagine if all this had hampered one of the two teams actually progressing on or in the final 16 onwards...
Olivier

Madiel

Damn you, insomnia.

Might as well start watching... 🇧🇪
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Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Madiel on December 01, 2022, 06:10:14 AMDamn you, insomnia.

Might as well start watching... 🇧🇪
Oh, no! Well, I was hoping that Belgium would manage to score a goal.  Great defending by Croatia though.

PD

Madiel

#449
I watched one half of Belgium-Croatia before being tired enough for bed.

It took me a while to get back to it all today. The Group F matches (including the above) were a bit dispiriting. Belgium just couldn't do it. Out of the teams I support, who would have guessed Australia was the one that would get out of the groups? Not me.

But the Group E matches were astounding in the second half! I'm glad I did the thing of switching between games. By my estimate, the qualifying teams changed 5 times, including one glorious minute where Costa Rica was winning. In the end they didn't, but Japan held on well. Two sudden knockout punches against two European powers, and they win the group! Just amazing.

If you looked at the groups and the rankings before the tournament, Morocco and Japan shouldn't have made it out of the groups and they each won them.
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Jo498

Unlike last time when they totally screwed up I have sympathy for the German team. It was pretty clear before they would not be able to score 8 goals but nobody expected Spain to lose (as they couldn't risk Costa Rica winning)
It's now the worst spell ever for a German national team. They had never before 2018 (in tournaments with group phase) failed to advance and now they failed twice in a row. It's a bit of bad luck because I think the team in the late 1990s and 2002 was actually worse (maybe not always but frequently) and nevertheless got pretty far in these world cups.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Florestan

I think Spain was actually okay with coming second and playing against Morocco instead of Croatia. It was obvious to me that they did not force a draw.

Btw, what do you guys think? Ball out or not at Japan's second goal? I confess that both I and my wife saw it out in its entirety on several replays but on the other hand it's hard to believe that the VAR could have much such a blunder.
"Art is no excuse for boring people." - Jules Renard

"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

Jo498

But Spain would have been out if Costa Rica had one and they had the lead, although only for a a short time! Except for the last 10 min or so when Germany led again it was very risky to count on Costa Rica not winning.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Florestan

Quote from: Jo498 on December 02, 2022, 01:12:29 AMBut Spain would have been out if Costa Rica had one and they had the lead, although only for a a short time! Except for the last 10 min or so when Germany led again it was very risky to count on Costa Rica not winning.

Precisely. It's in the last 10 minutes or so (including additional time) that the Spaniards left me with the distinct impresssion they were actually content  with the result. They knew Costa Rica could not win anymore and did not force the draw, thus avoiding playing against Croatia which is a much tougher nut to crack than Morocco, at least in theory.
"Art is no excuse for boring people." - Jules Renard

"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

Madiel

Quote from: Florestan on December 02, 2022, 12:56:54 AMI think Spain was actually okay with coming second and playing against Morocco instead of Croatia. It was obvious to me that they did not force a draw.

Btw, what do you guys think? Ball out or not at Japan's second goal? I confess that both I and my wife saw it out in its entirety on several replays but on the other hand it's hard to believe that the VAR could have much such a blunder.

I think the ball was in. Seeing grass at ground level is meaningless because the whole of the ball has to be over the line. If it was a cube/box, you could judge it at the ground. But it's a ball. The edge of the ball hovering over the line is enough to be in.
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Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on December 02, 2022, 02:07:08 AMthe whole of the ball has to be over the line

Yes, I knew that. I found this very helpful article with excellent pictures. The first one, right under the title, it's the one that made us believe the ball was out. The second one, posted by one Chris Williams on Twitter, clearly shows it was in, albeit by the smallest of margins.

https://www.goal.com/en/news/explained-why-japan-second-goal-spain-controversially-allowed-var/blt78d3cdd7144ece65
"Art is no excuse for boring people." - Jules Renard

"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

Madiel

Quote from: Florestan on December 02, 2022, 03:22:16 AMYes, I knew that. I found this very helpful article with excellent pictures. The first one, right under the title, it's the one that made us believe the ball was out. The second one, posted by one Chris Williams on Twitter, clearly shows it was in, albeit by the smallest of margins.

https://www.goal.com/en/news/explained-why-japan-second-goal-spain-controversially-allowed-var/blt78d3cdd7144ece65

The Chris Williams tweet is excellent. Thanks.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Florestan

I feel sorry for Uruguay. They'd have deserved to qualify, no less than Ghana would have deserved a draw. Anyway, this is probably the most surprising WC ever.
"Art is no excuse for boring people." - Jules Renard

"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

Dry Brett Kavanaugh


Florestan

"Art is no excuse for boring people." - Jules Renard

"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart