The British Composers Thread

[Mark]

I know Mark you value Vaughan Williams even higher than Elgar but I have always left cold by VW's music.

What I mean by saying nothing happens is I don't sense movement/changes in the music. VW's music sounds very similar all the time. It never does anything crazy/anarchist/unexpected to surprise the listener. There is no contrasts. That's why I talk about snow. You walk and walk but all you see around yourself is the same white snow and it makes you eventually blind. I also do not sense much musical structures. Harmony, rhythm, melody, tempi and other musical dimension don't seem to connect to each other. They live their own independent life. That makes the music "flat" for me (just like ground covered with show). VW sounds shockingly different from Elgar. There seems to be nothing in common. Even Sibelius who I don't care much either sounds more Elgar than VW.

It seems I need a snow shovel to remove the snow and see the colourful ground under it. Or, I need to look up to the sky and see the lark ascending.

You leave me speechless, Poju, utterly speechless ...

[BachQ]

You leave me speechless, Poju, utterly speechless ...

Welcome to Poju's World

[Grazioso]

I know Mark you value Vaughan Williams even higher than Elgar but I have always left cold by VW's music.

What I mean by saying nothing happens is I don't sense movement/changes in the music. VW's music sounds very similar all the time. It never does anything crazy/anarchist/unexpected to surprise the listener. There is no contrasts. That's why I talk about snow. You walk and walk but all you see around yourself is the same white snow and it makes you eventually blind. I also do not sense much musical structures. Harmony, rhythm, melody, tempi and other musical dimension don't seem to connect to each other. They live their own independent life. That makes the music "flat" for me (just like ground covered with show). VW sounds shockingly different from Elgar. There seems to be nothing in common. Even Sibelius who I don't care much either sounds more Elgar than VW.

It seems I need a snow shovel to remove the snow and see the colourful ground under it. Or, I need to look up to the sky and see the lark ascending.

Have you listened to the RVW symphonies? The Wasps overture (very clear structure), the Phantasy Quintet? You mention the Lark Ascending, which is one of the most quintessentially English pieces of music I've heard. A gorgeous dreamy, pastoral piece. I always liked the Tallis Fantasia, but what really hammered home its emotional impact was its use as an elegy in the excellent film Master and Commander (which very deftly employs classical music throughout).

At this point, though, I'd rather listen to Bax than either Elgar or RVW

[vandermolen]

Have just ordered the CD below, containing music by Chisholm, Hold and Fogg.  Looks intriguing!

http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDLX7196

[71 dB]

You leave me speechless, Poju, utterly speechless ...

I'm an antiverbalist, I make people speechless... 

Personally I am shocked how low Elgar's status is among fans of classical music.

Have you listened to the RVW symphonies? The Wasps overture (very clear structure), the Phantasy Quintet? You mention the Lark Ascending, which is one of the most quintessentially English pieces of music I've heard. A gorgeous dreamy, pastoral piece. I always liked the Tallis Fantasia, but what really hammered home its emotional impact was its use as an elegy in the excellent film Master and Commander (which very deftly employs classical music throughout).

I haven't really listened to RVW symphonies. I haven't seen Master and Commander either.

[bhodges]

Have you listened to the RVW symphonies? The Wasps overture (very clear structure), the Phantasy Quintet? You mention the Lark Ascending, which is one of the most quintessentially English pieces of music I've heard. A gorgeous dreamy, pastoral piece. I always liked the Tallis Fantasia, but what really hammered home its emotional impact was its use as an elegy in the excellent film Master and Commander (which very deftly employs classical music throughout).

At this point, though, I'd rather listen to Bax than either Elgar or RVW

Oh Grazioso, thanks for reminding me of the Overture to The Wasps, which I love and haven't heard in a very long time.  Another immensely likeable work that doesn't seem to show up in the concert hall very much.

--Bruce

[Mark]

Have just ordered the CD below, containing music by Chisholm, Hold and Fogg.  Looks intriguing!

http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDLX7196

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Dutton is a label I need to explore. Ditto, Lyrita.

[karlhenning]

Personally I am shocked how low Elgar's status is among fans of classical music.

Personally, you are steadily depressing his status further.

[karlhenning]

I haven't really listened to RVW symphonies.

Ladies and gentleman of the jury, your honor:  we have no further questions.

[Mark]

Any fans here of Alan Rawsthorne? He was sold to me as 'the British Prokofiev'. Not sure I'd go quite that far, but I do hear similarities. This disc will make an excellent introduction for anyone interested - the Concertante Pastorale being particularly special:

[karlhenning]

Any fans here of Alan Rawsthorne? He was sold to me as 'the British Prokofiev'.

Interesting, Mark;  a great friend sent me a disc of chamber music, to which I have not yet gotten around to listening.

PS, as you are such a fan (and rightly so) of the Rakhmaninov Vespers, I hope you will seek out some of Ivan Moody's sacred choral music to give an ear to.  He has a most intimate and subtle familiarity with traditional Eastern Orthodox styles.

[vandermolen]

Any fans here of Alan Rawsthorne? He was sold to me as 'the British Prokofiev'. Not sure I'd go quite that far, but I do hear similarities. This disc will make an excellent introduction for anyone interested - the Concertante Pastorale being particularly special:

Most definitely yes. Symphonic Studies is his masterpece but both piano concertos are fine and the symphonies (all on one Naxos disc) are well worth exploring.  I love the Chandos disc of Rawsthorne's film music. The short score for "The Cruel Sea" is as good an evocation of the swll of the ocean as I know in music.

At first he studied to be a dentist!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rawsthorne-Film-Music-Alan/dp/B00004RDVO/ref=sr_1_1/202-9347871-3364610?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193424677&sr=1-1

[Don]

Any fans here of Alan Rawsthorne? He was sold to me as 'the British Prokofiev'. Not sure I'd go quite that far, but I do hear similarities. This disc will make an excellent introduction for anyone interested - the Concertante Pastorale being particularly special:

I'm a big fan of Rawsthorne's music and have all the Naxos and Lyrita discs along with an ASV of string quartets.  He takes some time to assimilate, but the effort is certainly worth it.

[Mark]

Knowing how our tastes can often be aligned, Don, I'm not surprised you're a fan of Rawsthorne. You're right about his work needing due time and listening to fully assimilate, and that it's worth the effort. I grabbed a handful of his recordings on Naxos straight after hearing the disc I've promoted in this thread, so convinced was I of his artistic worth.

[Mark]

PS, as you are such a fan (and rightly so) of the Rakhmaninov Vespers, I hope you will seek out some of Ivan Moody's sacred choral music to give an ear to.  He has a most intimate and subtle familiarity with traditional Eastern Orthodox styles.

Thanks for this, Karl. I trust Moody's work is easily enough sourced on CD?

[Nunc Dimittis]

I know Mark you value Vaughan Williams even higher than Elgar but I have always left cold by VW's music.

What I mean by saying nothing happens is I don't sense movement/changes in the music. VW's music sounds very similar all the time. It never does anything crazy/anarchist/unexpected to surprise the listener. There is no contrasts. That's why I talk about snow. You walk and walk but all you see around yourself is the same white snow and it makes you eventually blind. I also do not sense much musical structures. Harmony, rhythm, melody, tempi and other musical dimension don't seem to connect to each other. They live their own independent life. That makes the music "flat" for me (just like ground covered with show). VW sounds shockingly different from Elgar. There seems to be nothing in common. Even Sibelius who I don't care much either sounds more Elgar than VW.

It seems I need a snow shovel to remove the snow and see the colourful ground under it. Or, I need to look up to the sky and see the lark ascending.

Huh?  Have you listened to Symphonies 4, 6, 8 & 9 and the Piano Concerto? There is structure there.  It may not be what you are used to and expecting. Also, there are crazy/anarchist/unexpected moments in the above mentioned pieces.

[Dundonnell]

Any fans here of Alan Rawsthorne? He was sold to me as 'the British Prokofiev'. Not sure I'd go quite that far, but I do hear similarities. This disc will make an excellent introduction for anyone interested - the Concertante Pastorale being particularly special:

Rawsthorne always strikes me as more of an English Hindemith, I have to say. His music is skillfull and fastidious but lacks a certain element of warmth-as if he was just a little wary of letting emotion come too near the surface of the music. That said, the symphonies and concerti are all worth listening to and persevering with. The 1st symphony is particularly vigorous, the 2nd (with soprano solo) is warmer than most Rawsthorne, and the 3rd, though a little more 'difficult' has a very fine central slow movement.
It is often forgotten that Rawsthorne too(like Bliss) composed some big choral pieces-the Medieval Diptych for baritone and orchestra(1962), 'Carmen Vitale' for soprano, chorus and orchestra(1963) and the Cantata "The God in the Cave"(1967) but the 1960s was not a good decade for the more traditional British composers as rampant modernism swept concert halls and the BBC. These choral works are not available on CD yet.

A composer whose music I respect but would not go so far as to say love.

[not edward]

Huh?  Have you listened to Symphonies 4, 6, 8 & 9 and the Piano Concerto? There is structure there.  It may not be what you are used to and expecting. Also, there are crazy/anarchist/unexpected moments in the above mentioned pieces.

I'm glad someone mentioned RVW's piano concerto: to my mind a ridiculously neglected piece that combines some of his most ferocious writing with a drop-dead gorgeous slow movement. I wish some big-name pianist would champion it, though I'm told the work has the disadvantage of sounding much less difficult than it actually is to play.

[71 dB]

Some members posted they don't really know/have much music by English composers. Some members know their Rawsthornes and Baxes. Very dividing! My own interest of British composers has been limited mainly to Elgar, Finzi, Händel and Purcel.

[71 dB]

Huh?  Have you listened to Symphonies 4, 6, 8 & 9 and the Piano Concerto? There is structure there.  It may not be what you are used to and expecting. Also, there are crazy/anarchist/unexpected moments in the above mentioned pieces.

No, I haven't explored the Symphonies nor the Piano Concerto because what I have heard from RVW isn't promising. However, I'll keep in mind what you said.