The British Composers Thread

Started by Mark, October 25, 2007, 12:26:56 PM

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vers la flamme

Quote from: Papy Oli on January 26, 2020, 12:23:25 PM
For Butterworth, I recently received this one but it is still on the listening pile. Whatever I sampled however on YT of Butterworth impressed me too (songs and orchestral) and that seemed a good CD to cover this. There's also an alternative (dearer) on BIS.

[asin]B00005IA6B[/asin]

The orchestral music on here is the same recordings that I have on the Decca 2CD I mentioned a few posts back with Neville Marriner and the ASMF. I can definitely vouch for it, great performances!

Papy Oli

Quote from: vers la flamme on January 26, 2020, 01:19:16 PM
The orchestral music on here is the same recordings that I have on the Decca 2CD I mentioned a few posts back with Neville Marriner and the ASMF. I can definitely vouch for it, great performances!

Cool, i should be listening to this in the next 2-3 days.
Olivier

vers la flamme

Quote from: Papy Oli on January 26, 2020, 01:22:04 PM
Cool, i should be listening to this in the next 2-3 days.

You won't be disappointed! Though I see that you've placed Delius on your "struggle" list, so I suspect you may struggle to appreciate Butterworth as well, as Delius is who he reminds me of, though I find Butterworth's music more direct and tangible. I only wish he'd written more of it. I need to get my hands on that Naxos songs disc. There is another disc of Peter Warlock's songs on Naxos that I plan on getting too. God bless Naxos. I have discovered very much great music thanks to their extensive catalogue.

I'm listening to Arnold's Symphony No.5 now. What a symphony! Arnold was a hell of an orchestrator and we see those talents on display here more than any other. But the 9th remains my favorite for its profundity and strangeness. I have a feeling it's a very personal work, while this 5th symphony is more extraverted.

André

Quote from: Papy Oli on January 26, 2020, 12:30:33 PM
And Arnold Cooke
and Havergal Brian
and Cyril Scott
and Ruth Gipps
and Cyril Rootham
and...
and...

Christ on a bike, I am turning into Vandermolen  :o :laugh: :P

:laugh:

vandermolen

Quote from: Papy Oli on January 26, 2020, 12:30:33 PM
And Arnold Cooke
and Havergal Brian
and Cyril Scott
and Ruth Gipps
and Cyril Rootham
and...
and...

Christ on a bike, I am turning into Vandermolen  :o :laugh: :P

OH NO!!! Surely it hasn't come to that!
8)

PS I do like some non-British composers as well you know.
;)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Irons

Quote from: vers la flamme on January 26, 2020, 01:26:24 PM
You won't be disappointed! Though I see that you've placed Delius on your "struggle" list, so I suspect you may struggle to appreciate Butterworth as well, as Delius is who he reminds me of, though I find Butterworth's music more direct and tangible. I only wish he'd written more of it. I need to get my hands on that Naxos songs disc. There is another disc of Peter Warlock's songs on Naxos that I plan on getting too. God bless Naxos. I have discovered very much great music thanks to their extensive catalogue.



More "direct and tangible" is spot on, I don't think Oliver will struggle with Butterworth. I am a great admirer of Butterworth's music but even more so the man. As a lieutenant at the Somme his comrades had no idea he was a musician let alone a composer. Also his father only found out that his son had been awarded a military cross after Butterworth's death.

I wish he had written more music too. A sniper's bullet put paid to that.

Amazingly that there is film of Butterworth although he perished in WW1.  https://youtu.be/tI5qxjWutrs?list=RDtI5qxjWutrs
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

Roasted Swan

Quote from: vers la flamme on January 26, 2020, 01:26:24 PM
You won't be disappointed! Though I see that you've placed Delius on your "struggle" list, so I suspect you may struggle to appreciate Butterworth as well, as Delius is who he reminds me of, though I find Butterworth's music more direct and tangible. I only wish he'd written more of it. I need to get my hands on that Naxos songs disc. There is another disc of Peter Warlock's songs on Naxos that I plan on getting too. God bless Naxos. I have discovered very much great music thanks to their extensive catalogue.

I'm listening to Arnold's Symphony No.5 now. What a symphony! Arnold was a hell of an orchestrator and we see those talents on display here more than any other. But the 9th remains my favorite for its profundity and strangeness. I have a feeling it's a very personal work, while this 5th symphony is more extraverted.

Good call re Arnold - his 5th Symphony is in many ways his most "typical" work.  Quite how to define typical in as diverse a composer as Arnold!?  By that I mean - as you say - brilliant yet very personal orchestrations, music that can slip from the overtly optimistically populist to the darkest most personal utterances and strangely powerful and engaging music.  I think the 9th is a truly remarkable work - disturbing and profound.  Yet it seems to struggle for acceptance with many still reading its starkness and bare textures as a sign of the composer's failing (failed) musical intellect. 

This is a recurring complaint of mine - so apologies in advance! - this is exactly the kind of work that should be programmed at the BBC Proms.  For all the  outreach to music of different cultures and genres at heart the Proms claims to the the "World's Greatest Classical Music Festival" and I would rather hear this Arnold Symphony (or any number of other works from other countries too) there than another semi-staged musical.  And that from someone who has spent much of his professional music career playing for shows!

Maestro267

Honestly, I've given up with the Proms. It should really be reported to the ASA for a breach of the Trades Descriptions Act. As Britain's most widely-viewed classical music festival, it should be doing everything in its power to highlight British classical music. You could probably fill an entire week of the festival with mid-20th-century British orchestral and/or choral works never before heard at the Proms.

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Papy Oli on January 26, 2020, 12:27:57 PM
for Finzi, this is just gorgeous:

[asin]B000N8UVR6[/asin]

For Alwyn: the symphonies conducted by Alwyn himself on Lyrita.

For Holst : one CD by Boult and  one by Imogen Holst, both on Lyrita as well.

Other composers to consider : Malcolm Arnold, Arnold Bax, Bantock, Moeran, Rubbra, Walton, George Lloyd.

All good shouts.  Bottom line is you'll almost never go wrong with a Lyrita disc.  That said the Arnold/Alwyn/Walton symphonies on Naxos are all very good indeed and might be a cheaper option.  Also the Holst discs on Naxos are excellent too.  Try Hamilton Harty while you're dipping a toe! - much of his stuff is distinctly Irish-influenced but a lovely symphony and violin concerto.....

Roasted Swan

Quote from: André on January 26, 2020, 12:20:52 PM
Re: Delius. The Barbirolli discs are indeed an excellent choice. I suppose you refer to this EMI twofer:



There's a 79 min Naxos disc of other works I highly recommend, containing as it does an excellent Florida Suite with some rare and neglected stuff. There is practically no duplication with the Barbirolli discs, which is good. The final scene from his opera Koanga concludes the disc beautifully. Florida Suite contains the original iteration of La Calinda, which was to be re-used by Delius in Koanga. Nice thematic connection between the first and last works on the disc then.



+`1 for these discs and also a mention for this other Lloyd-Jones compilation;



superficially it might appear to be "just" another compilation of the shorter orchestral 'pops' but hidden in the programme are some real rarities/gems too - the 3 Small Tone Poems are ravishing and the American Rhapsody fascinating for those interested in the pre-cursor of Appalachia

Roasted Swan

Following Vandermolen's prompting (not really that much required!) I bought yesterday the Foulds' Cello Sonata.  Not the Chandos version mentioned but this one;



the back cover of this disc has the following message for "age-challenged" listeners.....  "the generous length of this CD may cause ejection difficulties in some older-generation players"..... you have been warned

Christo

Quote from: André on December 21, 2019, 05:28:43 PM
Copied from the WAYL2 thread:
Three collective sets of Theme and Variations by british composers.

First is a Coronation offering initiated by Britten. In 1953 he enlisted Imogen Holst, Arthur Oldham, Michael Tippett, Lennox Berkeley, himself, Humphrey Searle and William Walton in the enterprise. This is the order in which they participated. At the premiere the composers were listed alphabetically and the public was invited to a guess-the-composer game. Nobody got it all right.

In 1966 the Severn Bridge Variations were commissioned for the opening of the suspended bridge over the Severn estuary that links England and Wales (watchers of The Crown: Prince Charles' Wales journey starts with the crossing of the Rubicon Severn bridge). Three English and three Welsh composers were asked for a variation on a welsh hymn tune.  The theme and first variation came from the pen of Malcolm Arnold (easily recognizable), followed by efforts from Alun Hoddinot, Nicolas Maw, Daniel Jones, Grace Williams and Michael Tippett. I found this the most stimulating and enjoyable of the three works.

The third set dates from 1987 and was commissioned by the Aldeburgh Festival for its 40th anniversary. The theme is based on the Sumer is acumen melody used by Britten in the finale of his own Simple Symphony. A short introduction precedes the statement of the theme, arranged by Oliver Knussen. The other variations are from Robert Saxton, Robin Holloway, Judith Weir, Alexander Goehr (beautiful), Colin Mathews and David Bedford.

The disc is not very long (55 minutes) but presents a richly varied and quite substantial program. I enjoyed all 20 tracks. Recommended.

Own it, fully agree. #thanksforreminding
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

vandermolen

#532
Quote from: Roasted Swan on January 29, 2020, 03:56:03 AM
Following Vandermolen's prompting (not really that much required!) I bought yesterday the Foulds' Cello Sonata.  Not the Chandos version mentioned but this one;



the back cover of this disc has the following message for "age-challenged" listeners.....  "the generous length of this CD may cause ejection difficulties in some older-generation players"..... you have been warned
Hilarious!

Hope you enjoy the Foulds. I really like that CD and personally experienced no 'ejection problems' 😎
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Christo

Quote from: Papy Oli on January 26, 2020, 12:30:33 PM
And Arnold Cooke
and Havergal Brian
and Cyril Scott
and Ruth Gipps
and Cyril Rootham
and...
and...

Christ on a bike, I am turning into Vandermolen  :o :laugh: :P

Add some extra dose of good old Myaskovsky & you'll be perfect.  8)
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Papy Oli

Quote from: Christo on January 29, 2020, 06:53:33 AM
Add some extra dose of good old Myaskovsky & you'll be perfect.  8)

;D

we kid, we kid, but that reminds me i still need to try the Myaskovsky recommendations I got from Jeffrey recently (16 symphonies out of the 27.. initially !!  ;D). Glad i didn't ask recommendations for Leif Segerstam's...  :P 0:) :laugh:
Olivier

vandermolen

Quote from: Papy Oli on January 29, 2020, 08:17:05 AM
;D

we kid, we kid, but that reminds me i still need to try the Myaskovsky recommendations I got from Jeffrey recently (16 symphonies out of the 27.. initially !!  ;D). Glad i didn't ask recommendations for Leif Segerstam's...  :P 0:) :laugh:

I'm happy to recommend a select list of Alan Hovhaness favourites as well.
;D
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Christo

Quote from: Papy Oli on January 29, 2020, 08:17:05 AM
... initially !!  ;D). Glad i didn't ask recommendations for Leif Segerstam's...  :P 0:) :laugh:

Good start, just 16, no more than half of the Havergal Brian output or 1,17365425 percent of the Symphonic Segerstam Flood. (Almost thankful Boulez didn't compose symphonies, hardly any music, for that matter.  ??? ).
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Christo

Quote from: Papy Oli on January 29, 2020, 08:17:05 AM
... initially !!  ;D). Glad i didn't ask recommendations for Leif Segerstam's...  :P 0:) :laugh:

Good start, just 16, no more than half of the Havergal Brian output or 1,17365425 percent of the Symphonic Segerstam Flood. (Almost thankful Boulez didn't compose symphonies, hardly any music, for that matter.  ??? ).

Quote from: vandermolen on January 29, 2020, 10:18:41 AM
I'm happy to recommend a select list of Alan Hovhaness favourites as well.
;D

I always start with symphonies Nos. 1-274, what would you recommend next? The God-created Whales - but are they also to be considered Hovhaness' creations then?  :-X
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

vandermolen

#538
Quote from: Christo on January 30, 2020, 11:38:39 AM
Good start, just 16, no more than half of the Havergal Brian output or 1,17365425 percent of the Symphonic Segerstam Flood. (Almost thankful Boulez didn't compose symphonies, hardly any music, for that matter.  ??? ).

I always start with symphonies Nos. 1-274, what would you recommend next? The God-created Whales - but are they also to be considered Hovhaness' creations then?  :-X
Yes, plus 'The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam' and 'Meditations on Orpheus' - just for starters.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Papy Oli

Just to bring back on topic after derailing it  0:) I am 100 pages in this one and this is very detailed and informative. Yet to get to the bulk of composers covered but the build up from land ohne musik onwards and its wrong prejudice/real struggle is well analysed.

[asin]2970065479[/asin]
Olivier