The British Composers Thread

Started by Mark, October 25, 2007, 12:26:56 PM

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vandermolen

#560
Quote from: steve ridgway on February 02, 2020, 09:07:36 AM
I didn't opt for History at school because it had a very poor record of exam passes, so have mostly learnt from reading, but the Anglo-Saxon period doesn't seem to get much mention. Maybe because the well educated aristocracy were all Normans.

I opted for History at school because I failed most of my other subjects!
I studied History and English in my first year at university. The English course included compulsory Anglo-Saxon - didn't understand any of it although I loved the stuff on the History of the English language (there was a really good book by an American academic called Baugh I seem to recall). Languages were never my strong point. For example this is a true conversation between myself and the O Level examiner.
Examiner (in French) 'What is the weather like?'
Me (aged 15 or 16) 'Ten past three'.

Back on topic, don't forget the American composer Howard Hanson's excellent 'Lament for Beowolf'. Don't know if he counts as he's not English:
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: Maestro267 on February 02, 2020, 07:51:30 AM
I'm probably going to have to get that recording of No. 2 and put up with the duplicate No. 3. I've also seen a couple of other recordings of Wordsworth's music on Toccata that I have my eye on as well.
I don't think you'll regret it. No.2 is very impressive I think.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Iota

Quote from: vandermolen on February 02, 2020, 12:24:28 PM
Languages were never my strong point. For example this is a true conversation between myself and the O Level examiner.
Examiner (in French) 'What is the weather like?'
Me (aged 15 or 16) 'Ten past three'.

  :laugh:

Yet another laugh out loud, affection-inducing vignette from La vie de vandermolen!

I still chuckle at story of your father standing up in the cinema for the national anthem with a dead leg and rolling over (.. I might've said it had me rolling in the aisles, heh). My own frailties and idiocy would extend to a War and Peace length compendium, so empathy comes easily!

vandermolen

Quote from: Iota on February 03, 2020, 04:46:52 AM
  :laugh:

Yet another laugh out loud, affection-inducing vignette from La vie de vandermolen!

I still chuckle at story of your father standing up in the cinema for the national anthem with a dead leg and rolling over (.. I might've said it had me rolling in the aisles, heh). My own frailties and idiocy would extend to a War and Peace length compendium, so empathy comes easily!

How kind of you to remember that! My father told me that once in the intermission, during a film at the cinema, my mother, when asked,  said that she did not want an ice cream then, typically, changed her mind as the film was about to re-start. In the darkness my father went through the wrong door and found himself outside the cinema on the street and unable to get back in. Yes, his rolling down the aisles during the National Anthem was an act of great disrespect to His/Her Majesty.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Roasted Swan

An interesting radio documentary about Stanley Bate on the BBC at the moment - broadcast on Monday I think.  Interesting simply because so little is known about him or indeed much of his music.  Good to hear a couple of songs recorded for the programme.  It did teeter on generalities - Stephen Bell (conductor of the recording of the Viola Concerto) resorting to bland non-specific comments (who can blame him) when asked to make observations about the Bate Symphony No.2 when handed the score for literally the first time ("its big".... kind of thing).  I know some rate Bate very highly - Vandermolen I'm looking at YOU!! - I think he's good without being exceptional.  Perhaps if he had lived longer his music would have deepened.  One interesting fact from the programme was reference to the ease with which he could write music down.  As ever raising the question about when facility slips into the facile......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dxyq

certainly worth a listen for those interested in British 20th Century music.  And if you are not - why are you reading this thread ( ;))

Christo

Quote from: vandermolen on February 03, 2020, 12:34:43 PM
How kind of you to remember that! My father told me that once in the intermission, during a film at the cinema, my mother, when asked,  said that she did not want an ice cream then, typically, changed her mind as the film was about to re-start. In the darkness my father went through the wrong door and found himself outside the cinema on the street and unable to get back in. Yes, his rolling down the aisles during the National Anthem was an act of great disrespect to His/Her Majesty.

Great story (two stories even). Never read them before, many thanks! BTW hope he suffered for the Right National Anthem - since You Over There Across the North Sea seem to uphold the luxury of having several Almost National Anthems. I recall one urging Brittania to rule (we don't pay reverences to, you did that long enough, you rascals), one urging God to save the Queen (very apt, you're a people everybody needs to be protected against), one by Parry glorifying Jerusalem (no wonder after the Blitz) and a handful more, but always set to music by Elgar because he's your most German composer & the only one you take serious enough since your other anthem-setting German businessman called Georg Friedrich Händel (Fritz Handl for you)........ Oh, yes, 'Hallelujah' another one of your More Than National Anthems, actually the only one I'm prepared to stand up for, hoping they'll skip the whole Messiah Part Three if we applaud long enough.  :-X

8) 
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Papy Oli

Quote from: Roasted Swan on February 04, 2020, 08:52:28 AM
An interesting radio documentary about Stanley Bate on the BBC at the moment - broadcast on Monday I think.  Interesting simply because so little is known about him or indeed much of his music.  Good to hear a couple of songs recorded for the programme.  It did teeter on generalities - Stephen Bell (conductor of the recording of the Viola Concerto) resorting to bland non-specific comments (who can blame him) when asked to make observations about the Bate Symphony No.2 when handed the score for literally the first time ("its big".... kind of thing).  I know some rate Bate very highly - Vandermolen I'm looking at YOU!! - I think he's good without being exceptional.  Perhaps if he had lived longer his music would have deepened.  One interesting fact from the programme was reference to the ease with which he could write music down.  As ever raising the question about when facility slips into the facile......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dxyq

certainly worth a listen for those interested in British 20th Century music.  And if you are not - why are you reading this thread ( ;))

Thank you for the heads up RS.
Olivier

Iota

Quote from: vandermolen on February 03, 2020, 12:42:41 PMMy father told me that once in the intermission, during a film at the cinema, my mother, when asked,  said that she did not want an ice cream then, typically, changed her mind as the film was about to re-start. In the darkness my father went through the wrong door and found himself outside the cinema on the street and unable to get back in.

:laugh:  Another gem! You really have the Midas touch when portraying our wistful little losing battles with life .. touching/amusing in a Jaques Tati/Tony Hancock tragi-comedie sort of way.

vandermolen

Quote from: Roasted Swan on February 04, 2020, 08:52:28 AM
An interesting radio documentary about Stanley Bate on the BBC at the moment - broadcast on Monday I think.  Interesting simply because so little is known about him or indeed much of his music.  Good to hear a couple of songs recorded for the programme.  It did teeter on generalities - Stephen Bell (conductor of the recording of the Viola Concerto) resorting to bland non-specific comments (who can blame him) when asked to make observations about the Bate Symphony No.2 when handed the score for literally the first time ("its big".... kind of thing).  I know some rate Bate very highly - Vandermolen I'm looking at YOU!! - I think he's good without being exceptional.  Perhaps if he had lived longer his music would have deepened.  One interesting fact from the programme was reference to the ease with which he could write music down.  As ever raising the question about when facility slips into the facile......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dxyq

certainly worth a listen for those interested in British 20th Century music.  And if you are not - why are you reading this thread ( ;))
How interesting! Thanks for posting this RS. Must listen but have to go to work (how infuriating!  >:D). Christo is another fan. I rate him very highly (Bate and Christo  8)) and have liked everything I've heard by him - symphonies 3 and 4 especially ( he's good on the 'hopeless defiance' which always appeals to me). Also the Viola and Piano Concerto. That Chandos CD with Chisholm's 'Pictures from Dante' and the Arnell work is one of my favourite CDs.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: Christo on February 04, 2020, 09:51:39 AM
Great story (two stories even). Never read them before, many thanks! BTW hope he suffered for the Right National Anthem - since You Over There Across the North Sea seem to uphold the luxury of having several Almost National Anthems. I recall one urging Brittania to rule (we don't pay reverences to, you did that long enough, you rascals), one urging God to save the Queen (very apt, you're a people everybody needs to be protected against), one by Parry glorifying Jerusalem (no wonder after the Blitz) and a handful more, but always set to music by Elgar because he's your most German composer & the only one you take serious enough since your other anthem-setting German businessman called Georg Friedrich Händel (Fritz Handl for you)........ Oh, yes, 'Hallelujah' another one of your More Than National Anthems, actually the only one I'm prepared to stand up for, hoping they'll skip the whole Messiah Part Three if we applaud long enough.  :-X

8)
:)  They should have chosen 'Jerusalem'.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

#570
Quote from: Iota on February 04, 2020, 11:46:11 AM
:laugh:  Another gem! You really have the Midas touch when portraying our wistful little losing battles with life .. touching/amusing in a Jaques Tati/Tony Hancock tragi-comedie sort of way.
Thank you  :)
Those are two of my favourite comedians.

One day I must tell you about the time that I inadvertently (I promise) ended up in a strip-club whilst being in charge of a school trip abroad, but I'll leave that for another time.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Christo

Quote from: vandermolen on February 04, 2020, 11:16:57 PM
  :)  They should have chosen 'Jerusalem'.

Yep. At least that would be something to long for.  ;D
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Papy Oli

Quote from: vandermolen on February 04, 2020, 11:16:57 PM
  :)  They should have chosen 'Jerusalem'.

they should pick the Grand Grand Festival overture...then each quarter of the stadium or venue or crowd can sing the sound of their own vacuum cleaner section or floor polisher ...and we can rename it God save the Clean.... :blank:
Olivier

vandermolen

Quote from: Papy Oli on February 04, 2020, 11:51:34 PM
they should pick the Grand Grand Festival overture...then each quarter of the stadium or venue or crowd can sing the sound of their own vacuum cleaner section or floor polisher ...and we can rename it God save the Clean.... :blank:
Brilliant idea!
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Christo

Quote from: vandermolen on February 05, 2020, 12:21:03 AM
Brilliant idea!
Quote from: Papy Oli on February 04, 2020, 11:51:34 PM
they should pick the Grand Grand Festival overture...then each quarter of the stadium or venue or crowd can sing the sound of their own vacuum cleaner section or floor polisher ...and we can rename it God save the Clean.... :blank:

Believe it - or not - but that's almost exactly what the Czechs did with this glorious overture, over 30 years ago - just to offer a fine example for everything still British after Brexit (not much, but still):
https://www.youtube.com/v/_Effvz9H9UQ (The opening scenes)
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

steve ridgway

Quote from: Christo on February 04, 2020, 09:51:39 AM
Great story (two stories even). Never read them before, many thanks! BTW hope he suffered for the Right National Anthem - since You Over There Across the North Sea seem to uphold the luxury of having several Almost National Anthems. I recall one urging Brittania to rule (we don't pay reverences to, you did that long enough, you rascals), one urging God to save the Queen (very apt, you're a people everybody needs to be protected against), one by Parry glorifying Jerusalem (no wonder after the Blitz) and a handful more, but always set to music by Elgar because he's your most German composer & the only one you take serious enough since your other anthem-setting German businessman called Georg Friedrich Händel (Fritz Handl for you)........ Oh, yes, 'Hallelujah' another one of your More Than National Anthems, actually the only one I'm prepared to stand up for, hoping they'll skip the whole Messiah Part Three if we applaud long enough.  :-X

8)

We don't actually have an English National Anthem so as it ought to be by an English composer may I suggest Holst's Mars>:D

Christo

Quote from: steve ridgway on February 05, 2020, 07:13:00 AM
We don't actually have an English National Anthem so as it ought to be by an English composer may I suggest Holst's Mars>:D

No, you don't. After all, we beat you in three consequent Anglo-Dutch wars, 1652-1674, so please leave your war drums at home this time. Of course Gustavus von Holst [your anthem composers always Germans, isn't it] wrote yet another of your dozens of Almost National Anthems. Yes, it is part of The Planets, namely the great tune of 'Jupiter' set to some Jingoistic utterings I won't translate:  :-X

https://www.youtube.com/v/bvouc8Qs_MI  8)
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Christo on February 05, 2020, 09:37:46 AM
No, you don't. After all, we beat you in three consequent Anglo-Dutch wars, 1652-1674, so please leave your war drums at home this time. Of course Gustavus von Holst [your anthem composers always Germans, isn't it] wrote yet another of your dozens of Almost National Anthems. Yes, it is part of The Planets, namely the great tune of 'Jupiter' set to some Jingoistic utterings I won't translate:  :-X

https://www.youtube.com/v/bvouc8Qs_MI  8)

Total tangent..... I read a really interesting book recently



which covers the 2nd Anglo-Dutch War in the midst of the Plague and the Fire of London.  In my ignorance I knew nothing about it but was fascinated how in the great spirit of "Fake News" the British government declared our defeat a major victory because they so feared civil unrest even Revolution if such a military set-back was announced on the back of the other 2 catastrophes...... everything old is new again......

Iota

Quote from: vandermolen on February 04, 2020, 11:19:00 PM
Thank you  :)
Those are two of my favourite comedians.

One day I must tell you about the time that I inadvertently (I promise) ended up in a strip-club whilst being in charge of a school trip abroad, but I'll leave that for another time.

Ha ha, that sounds like it's worth waiting for!


Irons

Suffering PC problems  >:( so unable to post pic or link but completely taken by surprise by "Improvisations on a Theme by Constant Lambert" by Alan Rawsthorne with the Ulster Orchestra directed by Takuo Yusska on Naxos. Just over 12 minutes in length and used as a filler for the two PCs expectations were not particularly high. How wrong is that! A terrific piece dedicated to Rawsthorne's wife who happened to be Lambert's widow. Highly recommended with an excellent atmospheric performance from all concerned.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.