The British Composers Thread

Started by Mark, October 25, 2007, 12:26:56 PM

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Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: San Antone on March 16, 2023, 12:21:58 PMHas Ronald Corp been mentioned here? 

I have been listening to two recordings of his music by the Maggini Quartet and finding them interesting.  Prior to this he was unknown to me. I have since learned that he is a chorall conductor as well as integral with the New London Orchestra and the London Choral Society.

I mentioned elsewhere how impressed I am with the Maggini Quartet's series of recordings of 20th century British works.
I only have a handful of discs of theirs (four I believe?), but I've really enjoyed what I've heard by them.  :)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Roy Bland


lordlance

#1262
My experience with British composers so far:
1. Macmillan - Love The Confession of Isobel Gowdie
2. Parry - Symphony #5 seems worth a second listen
3. Maxwell Davies - a tough nut to crack and one I've not heard in a long time
4. Elgar - his symphonies are incredibly dull and academic; I do enjoy In The South and Cockaigne though
5. Vaughan Williams - Symphony #4 piqued my interest and #5 was boring
6. Stanford - not great based on Symphony #3.I - have to get around to finishing the piece - and first half of Concert Piece for Organ and Orchestra
7. Malcolm Arnold - love his music except notably Symphony No. 9)
8. Turnage - I used to like his music when I first started hearing contemporary music not so much anymore. Too dissonant. I might revisit the Rattle disc to see if I feel differently as that is what got me into the composer.
9. Bax - Heard a lot of his orchestral music and even though his style is unmistakable so much of it can just become a mush of excellent atmospheric background music rather than masterpieces that stick with you. I have to revisit Symphony #6 and Russian Suite. I remember enjoying Festival Overture.
10. Walton - I've not revisited his First Symphony but remember liking it.

I want to try more British composers. Looking for orchestral music that is generally more busy or vigorous and not calm/contemplative or sounds like like En Saga (I recently tried rehearing it.)
If you are interested in listening to orchestrations of solo/chamber music, you might be interested in this thread.
Also looking for recommendations on neglected conductors thread.

Roasted Swan

Quote from: lordlance on March 27, 2023, 06:58:09 PMMy experience with British composers so far:
1. Macmillan - Love The Confession of Isobel Gowdie
2. Parry - Symphony #5 seems worth a second listen
3. Maxwell Davies - a tough nut to crack and one I've not heard in a long time
4. Elgar - his symphonies are incredibly dull and academic; I do enjoy In The South and Cockaigne though
5. Vaughan Williams - Symphony #4 piqued my interest and #5 was boring
6. Stanford - not great based on Symphony #3.I - have to get around to finishing the piece - and first half of Concert Piece for Organ and Orchestra
7. Malcolm Arnold - love his music except notably Symphony No. 9)
8. Turnage - I used to like his music when I first started hearing contemporary music not so much anymore. Too dissonant. I might revisit the Rattle disc to see if I feel differently as that is what got me into the composer.
9. Bax - Heard a lot of his orchestral music and even though his style is unmistakable so much of it can just become a mush of excellent atmospheric background music rather than masterpieces that stick with you. I have to revisit Symphony #6 and Russian Suite. I remember enjoying Festival Overture.
10. Walton - I've not revisited his First Symphony but remember liking it.

I want to try more British composers. Looking for orchestral music that is generally more busy or vigorous and not calm/contemplative or sounds like like En Saga (I recently tried rehearing it.)

No controversial statements in the above list then. 

1.) Given that Elgar was self-taught the idea that his music is "academic" is hilarious. 
2.) RVW 5 - arguably one of the GREAT British 20th Century Symphonies - "dull" a comment for which the phrase "missed the point" was made.
3.) Arnold 9 - a deeply moving and powerful insight into a genius falling apart
4.) Bax's "excellent atmospheric background music" misses the essential truth of this passionate and wayward genius
5.) Parry and Walton have asked me to pass on their thanks for your consideration.

vandermolen

Quote from: lordlance on March 27, 2023, 06:58:09 PMMy experience with British composers so far:
1. Macmillan - Love The Confession of Isobel Gowdie
2. Parry - Symphony #5 seems worth a second listen
3. Maxwell Davies - a tough nut to crack and one I've not heard in a long time
4. Elgar - his symphonies are incredibly dull and academic; I do enjoy In The South and Cockaigne though
5. Vaughan Williams - Symphony #4 piqued my interest and #5 was boring
6. Stanford - not great based on Symphony #3.I - have to get around to finishing the piece - and first half of Concert Piece for Organ and Orchestra
7. Malcolm Arnold - love his music except notably Symphony No. 9)
8. Turnage - I used to like his music when I first started hearing contemporary music not so much anymore. Too dissonant. I might revisit the Rattle disc to see if I feel differently as that is what got me into the composer.
9. Bax - Heard a lot of his orchestral music and even though his style is unmistakable so much of it can just become a mush of excellent atmospheric background music rather than masterpieces that stick with you. I have to revisit Symphony #6 and Russian Suite. I remember enjoying Festival Overture.
10. Walton - I've not revisited his First Symphony but remember liking it.

I want to try more British composers. Looking for orchestral music that is generally more busy or vigorous and not calm/contemplative or sounds like like En Saga (I recently tried rehearing it.)
Try Arthur Butterworth Symphony No.4 (there are two recordings)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

lordlance

#1265
Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 28, 2023, 12:07:17 AMNo controversial statements in the above list then. 

1.) Given that Elgar was self-taught the idea that his music is "academic" is hilarious. 
2.) RVW 5 - arguably one of the GREAT British 20th Century Symphonies - "dull" a comment for which the phrase "missed the point" was made.
3.) Arnold 9 - a deeply moving and powerful insight into a genius falling apart
4.) Bax's "excellent atmospheric background music" misses the essential truth of this passionate and wayward genius
5.) Parry and Walton have asked me to pass on their thanks for your consideration.

I don't see what being self taught has to do with how dry Elgar's symphonies sound.

My list was intended to give a sense of my taste and not proclamations of the ultimate truth so you can disagree with it and not be quite so offended by it  ;D

To each their own...
If you are interested in listening to orchestrations of solo/chamber music, you might be interested in this thread.
Also looking for recommendations on neglected conductors thread.

Brahmsian

Quote from: lordlance on March 28, 2023, 04:54:23 AMI don't see what being self taught has to do with how dry Elgar's symphonies sound.


To be fair to you, but unfair to Elgar and his supporters, I also find Elgar's symphonies generally difficult, although I really adore the final movement of the 2nd symphony.  It is gorgeous.

Roasted Swan

Quote from: lordlance on March 28, 2023, 04:54:23 AMI don't see what being self taught has to do with how dry Elgar's symphonies sound.

My list was intended to give a sense of my taste and not proclamations of the ultimate truth so you can disagree with it and not be quite so offended by it  ;D

To each their own...

your word was "academic" not "dry".  BTW - I was not offended just bemused. 

Irons

Quote from: vandermolen on March 28, 2023, 12:34:32 AMTry Arthur Butterworth Symphony No.4 (there are two recordings)

I think lordlance a lost cause as far as music from our small island, Jeffrey.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

DavidW

Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 28, 2023, 12:07:17 AM2.) RVW 5 - arguably one of the GREAT British 20th Century Symphonies - "dull" a comment for which the phrase "missed the point" was made.


I would even go further and argue that it is one of the greatest symphonies PERIOD.  And certainly in the 20th century I could only think of Sibelius and Shostakovich comparing.  What an absolute masterpiece of expression, melody, lyricism with never an uninspired moment.

DavidW

Quote from: lordlance on March 27, 2023, 06:58:09 PMI want to try more British composers. Looking for orchestral music that is generally more busy or vigorous and not calm/contemplative or sounds like like En Saga (I recently tried rehearing it.)

I would try Britten, Simpson and Birtwistle.  They definitely move in a different direction from the neoromantic sound that leaves you cold.

Luke

Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 28, 2023, 06:03:43 AMyour word was "academic" not "dry".  BTW - I was not offended just bemused. 

Likewise. I scarcely know of a composer more resolutely unacademic than Elgar, and indeed one of the chief strengths of his music is that it goes so boldly forwards into the unknown, trembling on the edge of emotions too big to understand, without any bolstering save its own wits and strength of feeling. Spending a lot of time with the Violin Concerto and the Second Symphony recently has reinforced that impression.

Re 'dry' - I knew of someone whose tastes ran mostly to the baroque who dismissed Mahler not for the reasons one might suspect of a Bachian but because he was 'too dry.' I never could come close to understanding that.

lordlance

Quote from: DavidW on March 28, 2023, 06:19:14 AMI would try Britten, Simpson and Birtwistle.  They definitely move in a different direction from the neoromantic sound that leaves you cold.

Ah yes I forgot to add Simpson 5. I enjoyed that too.

Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 28, 2023, 06:03:43 AMyour word was "academic" not "dry".  BTW - I was not offended just bemused. 

In the interest of keeping things lighter, which contemporary British composers do you enjoy?
If you are interested in listening to orchestrations of solo/chamber music, you might be interested in this thread.
Also looking for recommendations on neglected conductors thread.

Roasted Swan

Quote from: lordlance on March 28, 2023, 06:38:28 AMAh yes I forgot to add Simpson 5. I enjoyed that too.

In the interest of keeping things lighter, which contemporary British composers do you enjoy?


Curiously - although I enjoy a lot of contemporary music, and a great deal of 20th century British music, I don't listen to much British contemporary music (if by that you mean living composers) - go figure!  Phillip Sawyers I always enjoy for well-crafted and heartfelt works.  Sally Beamish, Judith Weir and John Pickard write music I enjoy too but these are all quite traditional which probably reflects my tastes rather than being a comment on many other composers.....

foxandpeng

#1274
Quote from: lordlance on March 27, 2023, 06:58:09 PMMy experience with British composers so far:
1. Macmillan - Love The Confession of Isobel Gowdie
2. Parry - Symphony #5 seems worth a second listen
3. Maxwell Davies - a tough nut to crack and one I've not heard in a long time
4. Elgar - his symphonies are incredibly dull and academic; I do enjoy In The South and Cockaigne though
5. Vaughan Williams - Symphony #4 piqued my interest and #5 was boring
6. Stanford - not great based on Symphony #3.I - have to get around to finishing the piece - and first half of Concert Piece for Organ and Orchestra
7. Malcolm Arnold - love his music except notably Symphony No. 9)
8. Turnage - I used to like his music when I first started hearing contemporary music not so much anymore. Too dissonant. I might revisit the Rattle disc to see if I feel differently as that is what got me into the composer.
9. Bax - Heard a lot of his orchestral music and even though his style is unmistakable so much of it can just become a mush of excellent atmospheric background music rather than masterpieces that stick with you. I have to revisit Symphony #6 and Russian Suite. I remember enjoying Festival Overture.
10. Walton - I've not revisited his First Symphony but remember liking it.

I want to try more British composers. Looking for orchestral music that is generally more busy or vigorous and not calm/contemplative or sounds like like En Saga (I recently tried rehearing it.)

Haha. I couldn't disagree more with most of this, but that's the beauty of engaging in a forum like this; we good-naturedly exchange thoughts, preferences and ideas 😁

There are lots of other amazing Brits who might float your boat. Some that I really like, that you might try;

Robert Simpson
George Lloyd
William Mathias
Richard Arnell
Philip Sawyers
David Matthews
Matthew Taylor
Alan Rawsthorne
Christopher Gunning
Havergal Brian
Edgar Bainton
Benjamin Frankel
Easley Blackwood
Ernest Moeran
Frederic Curzon
Granville Bantock
Hans Gál
Cyril Rootham
William Wordsworth
Grace Williams
John Joubert
Humphrey Searle
Daniel Jones
Derek Bourgeois
Edward German
Elizabeth Maconchy
Eugene Goossens
Peter Fricker
Gavin Bryers
Edward Gregson
John Blackwood McEwen
William Alwyn
Malcolm Lipkin
Edmund Rubbra
Malcolm Tippett
Ian White...

And that's just off the top of my head 😀

You will love some of these!!

"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

Roasted Swan

Quote from: foxandpeng on March 28, 2023, 07:54:14 AMHaha. I couldn't disagree more with most of this, but that's the beauty of engaging in a forum like this; we good-naturedly exchange thoughts, preferences and ideas 😁

There are lots of other amazing Brits who might float your boat. Some that I really like, that you might try;

Robert Simpson
George Lloyd
William Mathias
Richard Arnell
Philip Sawyers
David Matthews
Matthew Taylor
Alan Rawsthorne
Christopher Gunning
Havergal Brian
Edgar Bainton
Benjamin Frankel
Easley Blackwood
Ernest Moeran
Frederic Curzon
Granville Bantock
Hans Gál
Cyril Rootham
William Wordsworth
Grace Williams
John Joubert
Humphrey Searle
Daniel Jones
Derek Bourgeois
Edward German
Elizabeth Maconchy
Eugene Goossens
Peter Fricker
Gavin Bryers
Edward Gregson
John Blackwood McEwen
William Alwyn
Malcolm Lipkin
Edmund Rubbra
Malcolm Tippett
Ian White...

And that's just off the top of my head 😀

You will love some of these!!



Good list - but who's Easley Blackwood?!

lordlance

Quote from: foxandpeng on March 28, 2023, 07:54:14 AMHaha. I couldn't disagree more with most of this, but that's the beauty of engaging in a forum like this; we good-naturedly exchange thoughts, preferences and ideas 😁

There are lots of other amazing Brits who might float your boat. Some that I really like, that you might try;

Robert Simpson
George Lloyd
William Mathias
Richard Arnell
Philip Sawyers
David Matthews
Matthew Taylor
Alan Rawsthorne
Christopher Gunning
Havergal Brian
Edgar Bainton
Benjamin Frankel
Easley Blackwood
Ernest Moeran
Frederic Curzon
Granville Bantock
Hans Gál
Cyril Rootham
William Wordsworth
Grace Williams
John Joubert
Humphrey Searle
Daniel Jones
Derek Bourgeois
Edward German
Elizabeth Maconchy
Eugene Goossens
Peter Fricker
Gavin Bryers
Edward Gregson
John Blackwood McEwen
William Alwyn
Malcolm Lipkin
Edmund Rubbra
Malcolm Tippett
Ian White...

And that's just off the top of my head 😀

You will love some of these!!



Thank you. Do you have specific pieces from these folks that you would recommend? No need for every single one maybe just top 5.
If you are interested in listening to orchestrations of solo/chamber music, you might be interested in this thread.
Also looking for recommendations on neglected conductors thread.

Papy Oli

Quote from: foxandpeng on March 28, 2023, 07:54:14 AMAnd that's just off the top of my head 😀


Do you get a percentage on Lyrita sales, Danny?  :P  ;D
Olivier

DavidW

Oh Frankel... yes Fox! I forgot about him.  It has been a million years... maybe I should queue something up.

foxandpeng

Quote from: Papy Oli on March 28, 2023, 08:28:02 AMDo you get a percentage on Lyrita sales, Danny?  :P  ;D

Haha. I wish!
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy