The British Composers Thread

Started by Mark, October 25, 2007, 12:26:56 PM

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Rabbity Baxter

Quote from: Guido on April 26, 2009, 02:12:24 AM
Not everything has to be a Symphony! Nor does everyone have to write them to be worthwhile composers! (see Ades!)

Do you mean you might begin to consider Mr A worthwhile should he give the form a go, or that you do already, without his having done so yet?

I'm not sure a symphony by Tom would necessarily (by dint of being a symphony alone) make me think any better, or worse for that matter, of him. I've not thought very much at all of him so far. And by that I mean nothing particularly bad nor good.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Rabbity Baxter on April 26, 2009, 03:34:06 PM
Do you mean you might begin to consider Mr A worthwhile should he give the form a go, or that you do already, without his having done so yet?

The bolded words are the answer (eh, Guido?)
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Guido

Quote from: Jezetha on April 26, 2009, 03:37:26 PM
The bolded words are the answer (eh, Guido?)
Yessir. Tevot should be enough to prove to anyone that Ades is capable of writing highly engaging, masterfully wrought, beautiful and powerful orchestral music. He don't need no symphony!
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

Rabbity Baxter

Proof, it appears, to anyone but me. And a number of others, of course!

Dundonnell

Since I have heard 'Tevot'(by kind courtesy of Guido) I can agree with him wholeheartedly :)

Guido

Quote from: Rabbity Baxter on April 26, 2009, 03:50:25 PM
Proof, it appears, to anyone but me. And a number of others, of course!

Well, whatever, why keep going on about it?

Glad you agree Colin!
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Guido on April 26, 2009, 04:12:12 PM
Glad you agree Colin!

When Guido and Colin are in agreement, the world listens.  ;) I have made a mental note. Tevot, is it? Okay...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Dundonnell

Quote from: Jezetha on April 26, 2009, 11:30:51 PM
When Guido and Colin are in agreement, the world listens.  ;) I have made a mental note. Tevot, is it? Okay...

Oh, no, no ;D

After being (not unfairly) scolded in the Japanese Composers' thread, I make no claims for the infallibility of my musical tastes ;D

Grazioso

#248
Quote from: Guido on April 26, 2009, 04:53:04 AM
Well it was the standard large scale medium for orchestra, so it's not that surprising... We need to define what we mean by 'symphonist' here - does writing one symphony make one a symphonist? Is Moeran a symphonist with his one (very fine) symphony? Does any piece with the word symphony in the title mean that it is symphonic in thought?  I would argue that Britten wasn't a symphonist either - his 3 works bearing the title fit more easily into other categories. And of course as I said, there are many major writers for orchestral forces that never wrote a symphony.

For me, I generally conceive a "symphonist" to be a composer who focuses extensively on the medium and/or does some of his or her best work in it, even if that just means one piece. If it's just some one-off bit of weak juvenilia, then so-and-so composed a symphony but isn't a symphonist in that better sense. As for defining what constitutes a symphony per se, one quickly begins to tread on shaky ground there, so I generally opt for the inclusive definition of "If the composer calls it a symphony, it is one"--though some composers do bandy the term around much too casually for my taste :) Either way, Britain has given us a tremendous bounty of symphonies in the 20th century.

Quote from: Dundonnell on April 26, 2009, 12:53:21 PM
Of course I agree with you that "not everything has to be a symphony" :) Why, I like concertos as well...and big choral works too ;D

The list of composers who never wrote a symphony is indeed extensive. Grazioso mentioned Chopin, Puccini and Verdi, Delius and Finzi.
But you can add to those composers like Debussy, Ravel, Bartok, Faure, Falla, Busoni, Bridge, Petrassi, Dallapiccola, Orff, Ginastera, Howells, Ireland, Poulenc, Reger, Mussorgsky, Rodrigo, Satie....just off the top of my head. There are great names in that list :)

Of course many composers didn't write one--alas!--but note that I was talking about the major canonical greats: your Beethoven, Brahms, etc. Debussy or Bartok would fall in that category, but as much as I might enjoy, say, Bridge or Rodrigo, I wouldn't include them there. But look at all the "big names"* from the Classical era onward who did write at least one symphony: Mozart, Haydn, LvB, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Liszt, Bruckner, Mahler, Strauss, Wagner, Dvorak, Berlioz, Bizet, Saint-Saens, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Rachmaninov, Shostakovich, Resphigi, Copland, Bernstein, Elgar, RVW, Holst, Grieg, Sibelius, Nielsen, etc. I wonder if part of the reason we consider many of those composers to be "major" is precisely because they tackled the biggest and most prestigious instrumental genre with success, as well as providing concert programmers with lengthy, meaty works. But that's fodder for another thread.... Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

* I.e., the composers whose work fills the bulk of concert programs, form the "core repertoire", and get taught in classes and guides to newcomers as the "major" composers one should learn about.

There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Dundonnell

I agree with most of what you say but would doubt whether Wagner's Symphony is much other than juvenalia(it was composed when Wagner was 19). Grieg's Symphony might just fall into the same category. And Holst? Well, I suppose that the Cotswolds Symphony might count and the 'Choral Symphony' is certainly called a 'symphony'.

But I am nit-picking ;D

vandermolen

My favourite CD of 2009. Sensational.

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Here is the relevant image from Gustav Dore's illustrations for Dante's 'Inferno'(Dante and his spirit guide Virgil stare into Hell from a precarious ledge) to go with the extraordinary opening to Erik Chisholm's 'Pictures from Dante' - a masterpiece in my view (both the picture and the music!)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

The new erato

Quote from: vandermolen on November 26, 2009, 02:39:23 PM
My favourite CD of 2009. Sensational.
I was checking the listings at mdt, an it seems that both Dutton, Bate and Arnell are missing. As mdt usually have very comprehensive listings, I find that strange. No luck at europadisc either. Problems at Dutton?

vandermolen

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

The new erato

Quote from: vandermolen on November 29, 2009, 02:57:42 AM
I usually get direct from Dutton.



http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/
So did I.  :D Ordered your recommendation + the Arnell no 3. 10 minutes ago, after googling their site.

But I've bought Dutton from mdt before on several occasions (among other stuff the Rubbra quartets) so I wonder what happened....

vandermolen

Quote from: erato on November 29, 2009, 03:17:07 AM
So did I.  :D Ordered your recommendation + the Arnell no 3. 10 minutes ago, after googling their site.

But I've bought Dutton from mdt before on several occasions (among other stuff the Rubbra quartets) so I wonder what happened....

I'm sure you wont regret this purchase and I'll be really interested to hear what you think.  I can't stop playing the CD and in an anachronistic technological procedure I've even transferred the CD to audio-cassette so that I can play it on my low-fi car sound system on the way to work. Chisholm's 'Pictures from Dante' - the Inferno section - is very appropriate music to accompany me to my way to work  ;D
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

The new erato

Quote from: vandermolen on November 29, 2009, 04:00:37 AM
Chisholm's 'Pictures from Dante' - the Inferno section - is very appropriate music to accompany me to my way to work  ;D
Are you a teacher ?  ;)

vandermolen

Quote from: erato on November 29, 2009, 04:04:20 AM
Are you a teacher ?  ;)

Yes, you guessed, but the problem is not with the teaching, but with the management, under the command of one commonly known here as 'The Evil One'.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

J

Quote from: erato on November 29, 2009, 01:18:20 AM
I was checking the listings at mdt, an it seems that both Dutton, Bate and Arnell are missing. As mdt usually have very comprehensive listings, I find that strange. No luck at europadisc either. Problems at Dutton?

I buy Dutton CD's at prestoclassical.com which has the lowest price I've found (for a US buyer at least - even with overseas shipping).

MDT quit selling Dutton discs (or at least the Epoch series) quite a long time ago I believe.

The new erato

Quote from: J on December 02, 2009, 03:48:19 PM
I buy Dutton CD's at prestoclassical.com which has the lowest price I've found (for a US buyer at least - even with overseas shipping).

MDT quit selling Dutton discs (or at least the Epoch series) quite a long time ago I believe.
I've already ordered two discs from Dutton's own site, but see that prestoclassical is significantly cheaper. In case Arnell catches on, I'll probably buy more discs and your tip is very useful. Thank you!