The Art of Wilhelm Furtwängler

[SimonGodders]

Get all (most) of my Russian CD's here:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Rare-Russian-Records_W0QQsspagenameZL2QQtZkm

Victor's great, but be warned, usually take a month to arrive!

[Harry Collier]

i]mid price[/i]).
Q

Wish I'd seen this before; I've just ordered one from MDT where they are £13 each (full price). Shucks! Who is selling at €13 (in case I decide on buying more after my test listen)?

[Harry Collier]

The violin concerto affirms Furtwängler's feeling for Sibelius. I admire Kulenkampff and I was pleasantly surprised by this first tape recording I've heard by him - I only knew 78 rpm's. He has a much fuller tone on this, and you hear him really digging into the strings, producing a very "grounded" sound. Old fashioned playing: lots of vibrato and portamenti. Wonderful performance.

Well, on the basis of this, I've ordered a copy. Hope it lives up to expectations. Poor old Kulenkampff has suffered from a poor transfer history.

[Que]

Wish I'd seen this before; I've just ordered one from MDT where they are £13 each (full price). Shucks! Who is selling at €13 (in case I decide on buying more after my test listen)?

Harry, you can get it for that price (€13) at jpc.
£13 is indeed rather expensive - if I have my currency rates straight - that's a difference of 46%.

Well, on the basis of this, I've ordered a copy. Hope it lives up to expectations. Poor old Kulenkampff has suffered from a poor transfer history.

Hope you'll like it! 

Q

[Harry Collier]

Hope you'll like it! 

Me too!

[George]

Bunny alerted me to this great site:

http://www.furtwangler.net/start.html

Perhaps we can refrence it to begin a discussion of this great conductor. 

This is what is contained within:


You are new to Furtwängler and you are looking for essential information ? We have made a short selection of 1 anecdote and 3 set of key documents that we think are a priority for you. Follow the guide!


Did you know?

CDs are 75 minutes long. Why so? One of Sony's Vice-President, Norio Ohga, wished this new format could host the Ninth Symphony conducted by Wilhelm Furtwängler, the longest version which is lasting 74 minutes (see the Bayreuth 1951 recording, produced by Walter Legge and published by EMI)*. The Japanese company imposed this choice at the beginning of the 80's on Philips, co-owner of the patents on the compact disc.
* in "Where have all the good times gone ? Louis Barfe, 2004. From Libération, 2 déc. 2004, see (in French)...


His life

Furtwängler was born on 26th January 1886 in Berlin and was deceased on 30th November 1954 in Baden-Baden. In between, the course of his life comprised a succession of episodes in which his personal desires vied with often tragic world events, contributing to make him a legendary conductor of the XXth century.
Furtwängler, a musical mystery by Stephane Topakian, 1994 (RTF file, 5 pages, 0,08 Mo)

A selection of portraits, from his childhood to his death. See...


His art of conducting

The Furtwänglerian art of conducting: a panorama. From the records released by the SWF, Felix Matus-Echaiz selects significant excerpt and help us understand why music lovers and musicians are still fascinated today by Furtwängler artistry. Listen...


Our guide of his best recordings

The French Wilhelm Furtwängler Society proposes a selection of the essential recordings to be introduced to the art of the conductor. Enthusiasts are probably right to think that this selection is more a starting point than anything exhaustive!

[George]

I thought this was cool:

CDs are 75 minutes long. Why so? One of Sony's Vice-President, Norio Ohga, wished this new format could host the Ninth Symphony conducted by Wilhelm Furtwängler, the longest version which is lasting 74 minutes (see the Bayreuth 1951 recording, produced by Walter Legge and published by EMI)*. The Japanese company imposed this choice at the beginning of the 80's on Philips, co-owner of the patents on the compact disc.
* in "Where have all the good times gone ? Louis Barfe, 2004. From Libération, 2 déc. 2004, see (in French)...

[Steve]

I thought this was cool:

CDs are 75 minutes long. Why so? One of Sony's Vice-President, Norio Ohga, wished this new format could host the Ninth Symphony conducted by Wilhelm Furtwängler, the longest version which is lasting 74 minutes (see the Bayreuth 1951 recording, produced by Walter Legge and published by EMI)*. The Japanese company imposed this choice at the beginning of the 80's on Philips, co-owner of the patents on the compact disc.
* in "Where have all the good times gone ? Louis Barfe, 2004. From Libération, 2 déc. 2004, see (in French)...

George, I seem to recall a similar tale involving the decision to set the length of a CD at 75 minutes which involved Herbert von Karajan and DG. Wonder who's tale it really is. 

[George]

George, I seem to recall a similar tale involving the decision to set the length of a CD at 75 minutes which involved Herbert von Karajan and DG. Wonder who's tale it really is. 

Well considering that HvK takes only 67 minutes on both his '63 and his '77....

[Josquin des Prez]

Is Furtwangler the most over-rated conductor that ever lived?

[George]

Ordered this one today:



I've read some incredible things about this Pathetique and since it's one of my very favorite symphonies I had to try it. 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Is Furtwangler the most over-rated conductor that ever lived?

Well, it's the whole 'divide' thing, with partisan camps nestled on either side of the debate.

During Furtwängler's lifetime it was the old Furtwängler/Toscanini debate. Legions swore by their favorite.

Today I guess it's not much different.

Overrated, though? Only if you reside in the camp that says so, I suppose...

[uffeviking]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George, it's an interesting thread you started, but how about using the same thread started some time ago? Gives the entire subject better cohesion. I leave it up to you, if you want to have your very own Furtwängler thread, to make it Topic No. 30 for our record, so be it. Beware of duplications though! 

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,415.0.html

[PSmith08]

Is Furtwängler the most over-rated conductor that ever lived?

Probably not. His Wagner and Beethoven make up for the material that he didn't do so well. I don't think, though, that he was a conductor for all seasons: he thrived in the central Germanic repertoire. There is a 1943 Meistersinger from Bayreuth (Furtwängler and Abendroth shared the performances that year) that has less-than-perfect sound and some lacunae. However, it is possible to hear his way with Wagner, and see that he "got" the Master. That record has its own, unique, issues that we'll leave alone for the moment. His Beethoven, especially the 1942 Berlin performance of the 9th, is the stuff of legend. There are other cases where he clearly didn't get the material and made a mess of it. His Haydn 88th, for example: I'm not sure if I like it. It doesn't seem very Haydnesque. It depends on how much you like his interpretative style and how well you think he does in his repertoire.

Still, I could think of three conductors more overrated than Furtwängler.

Well, it's the whole 'divide' thing, with partisan camps nestled on either side of the debate.

During Furtwängler's lifetime it was the old Furtwängler/Toscanini debate. Legions swore by their favorite.

Today I guess it's not much different.

Overrated, though? Only if you reside in the camp that says so, I suppose...

A fair appraisal of the overall situation, I warrant.

[Steve]

Well considering that HvK takes only 67 minutes on both his '63 and his '77....

"Karajan played an important role in the development of the original compact disc digital audio format. He championed this new consumer playback technology, lent his prestige to it, and appeared at the first press conference announcing the format. Early CD prototypes had a play time limited to sixty minutes. It is often asserted that the decision to extend the maximum playing time of the compact disc to its standard of seventy-four minutes was achieved in order to adequately accommodate Beethoven's Ninth Symphony."

[George]

"Karajan played an important role in the development of the original compact disc digital audio format. He championed this new consumer playback technology, lent his prestige to it, and appeared at the first press conference announcing the format. Early CD prototypes had a play time limited to sixty minutes. It is often asserted that the decision to extend the maximum playing time of the compact disc to its standard of seventy-four minutes was achieved in order to adequately accommodate Beethoven's Ninth Symphony."

I agree with every word, since it doesn't assert that it was Karajan's 9th that determined the length of a CD. It says to accomodate LvB's 9th, not Karajan's 9th. Like I said, Karajan's 9th wasn't ever that long, so the logic doesn't seem to make sense. 

If CD's were 70 minutes, then I would be more inclined to say that it was Karajan's 9th that determined the length of a CD. 

[George]

Well, it's the whole 'divide' thing, with partisan camps nestled on either side of the debate.

During Furtwängler's lifetime it was the old Furtwängler/Toscanini debate. Legions swore by their favorite.

Today I guess it's not much different.

I must be a wierdo. I enjoy both conductors' work.   

[Que]

I agree with every word, since it doesn't assert that it was Karajan's 9th that determined the length of a CD. It says to accomodate LvB's 9th, not Karajan's 9th. Like I said, Karajan's 9th wasn't ever that long, so the logic doesn't seem to make sense. 

If CD's were 70 minutes, then I would be more inclined to say that it was Karajan's 9th that determined the length of a CD. 

Correct George, the LvB 9th was at issue and one of Furtwängler's had the longest duration in the official catalogue (the EMI '51 Bayreuth), so his recording determined the standard.

Q

[Steve]

Correct George, the LvB 9th was at issue and one of Furtwängler's had the longest durationin the official catalogue (the EMI '51 Bayreuth), so his recording determined the standard.

And yes  - please merge the two threads!

Q

Good idea. 

[SimonGodders]

I must be a wierdo. I enjoy both conductors' work.   

I do as well, big fan of both and can see the merits in both their artistry.