The Art of Wilhelm Furtwängler

[MichaelRabin]

Thanks Que. What do you think of Rohn's performance? Cheers - RF

[Bonehelm]

I want to get a Beethoven VC played by Erich Rohn & Furtwangler. Which mastering is best - the DG, Andromeda or the Melodiya?

Melodiya, most of the time, historical recordings are the best on that label.

[eyeresist]

This thread is making me think about digging out my M&A Beethoven and Brahms sets again. I did find the harsh sound a turn-off on first listening, though.

Also, I recently got the Bruckner set on Andromeda. Quality is mostly surprisingly good - I think it must have been cleaned - but 8 and 9 have definitely been cleaned, managing to be both quite shrill and a bit bottom heavy at the same time. Perhaps worst is the artificial stereo sound imposed on these two symphonies. WHY?

Andromeda is a pirate, so who knows where they got it from.

I think they usually copy from legit editions, where they can get away with it.

[sam adams]

Has anyone bought (heard) this set yet. I have been very happy with my Furt Beethoven & Brahms sets from M&A. Looking for opinions on performances and sound if you have.



http://www.musicandarts.com/0208_New_Class.html


Thanks

[Gustav]

Has anyone bought (heard) this set yet. I have been very happy with my Furt Beethoven & Brahms sets from M&A. Looking for opinions on performances and sound if you have.



http://www.musicandarts.com/0208_New_Class.html


Thanks

No, but Berky had 2 sets, and was selling it for 25 bucks, needless to say they were gone in a nanosecond!

[dirkronk]

No, but Berky had 2 sets, and was selling it for 25 bucks, needless to say they were gone in a nanosecond!

Dang! Didn't see that one. Now I have to wait for the NEXT nanosecond...


However...re the music. The performances (if I remember the dates correctly) should give you some splendid Bruckner indeed. I've never heard another 9th to match this one, for example. But the "new" remastering process is something I'm not familiar with. Could be great, but...?

Dirk

[Sean]

Is it 1942?? Or 1951?

[dirkronk]

Both.
The wartime version from March 22/24, 1942 is probably best known and most reissued. (There was a follow-up performance, known as the "Hitler birthday" 9th on April 19, 1942, that was issued by Archipel).

The 1951 "famous" 9th was Furtwangler's performance at the Bayreuth festival that year.

BTW, at least three other 9ths--London 1937, Stockholm 1943 and Lucerne 1954--are ALMOST equally well known.

Hope that answers your question.

Cheers,

Dirk

[Sean]

Many many thanks.

Which is the one with the mistake in the slow movement people sometimes talk about?

[not edward]

Many many thanks.

Which is the one with the mistake in the slow movement people sometimes talk about?

If you mean the horrendous horn problems, that's Bayreuth 1951.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Great Gable]

If you mean the horrendous horn problems, that's Bayreuth 1951.

Which is, ironically, my absolute favourite of all ninths. I have four with Furtwangler - 1942 (Hitler's Birthday bash - like being in the path of a crashing train), 1952 Vienna, 1954 Lucerne and the 1951 Bayreuth. The slow movement of the latter is stunning - slower than all the others but not a snail's pace and more moving as a result.

[Renfield]

like being in the path of a crashing train

Yes, but that does make it very special; at least to me. Although the Lucerne 9th goes "above and beyond", so to put it. 0:)

[Holden]

Yes, but that does make it very special; at least to me. Although the Lucerne 9th goes "above and beyond", so to put it. 0:)

I also rate the Lucerne 9th very highly. I have the '51 Bayreuth and the famous '42 but it's the Lucerne I return to most often

[FredT]

All of the Furtwangler 9ths are valuble since no two are quite alike. Furtwangler's interpretations were very much subject to the occasion and that's why some find his legacy difficult to come to grips with. I would say that a Furtwangler 9th is not for the novice by any means. Also, all the Furtwangler 9ths that I've heard suffer from "listenable" sound at best.

[Que]

Also, all the Furtwangler 9ths that I've heard suffer from "listenable" sound at best.

Then you haven't heard the Lucerne recording on Tahra - which sounds amazingly good for a '50s live recording.

Q

[Keemun]

In case you're interested, HERE is a discography with all 12 of Furtwangler's recordings of Beethoven's 9th.

[Sean]

Wow, that's remarkable.

[Bonehelm]

Which one is the most sonically outstanding? I know all famous versions have coughs and tape hisses...and all are mono, correct?

[Sean]

The 1942 is available complete on Youtube, each mov in several parts. I listened to it yesterday- mostly fast tempos, even approaching a rather excitable state, a contrast to what is sometimes the greater maturity of Karajan, or other more measured approaches; however there's a high level of preparation with every bar illuminated and a wide range of gesture and dynamics. Furtwangler's greatest achievement, in that subtle sound detail, layering and colouring to produce those strange, otherworldly insightful moments, or visionary splendours as Grove puts it, are throughout this performance, perhaps most in the slow movement. No other conductor has ever quite achieved this sort of thing, some very peculiar effects. Several times I've stopped and replayed just a few seconds of music five or six times.

Another interesting on is his Eulenspiegel also on Youtube- some ruthless German spirit captured...