If There Isn't At Least One, Why Not?

[snyprrr]

i've been seriously sitting here for an HOUR just thinking about this thread. awesome posts!!! but, yes,...(cue ominous voice):

                sOMEtHing  hapPened in the 70s!!!

[Cato]

i've been seriously sitting here for an HOUR just thinking about this thread. awesome posts!!! but, yes,...(cue ominous voice):

                sOMEtHing  hapPened in the 70s!!!

Snyprr:
Here is something else for you to contemplate, which has intrigued me for some time: the world's population is larger than ever before, and with opportunities in theory better than ever before...

Why are there not multiple 21st-century Mozarts, Beethovens, Verdis competing for our attention?

Consider the 19th-century population of "Germany": one source lists the population c. 1870 as being less than half of what it is today.  And yet the area produced Beethoven, Schumann, Wagner, etc.

With twice the population now...?   

[jwinter]

I would bet that it's not a lack of genius (oh, Hi Josquin) but rather that today's talent is being diffused into a much greater variety of disciplines.  Serious music was once supported by great patrons, and promoted as a thing of beauty and importance by aristocrats all over Europe.  Today, there are so many more outlets for creativity in children such as a future Mozart or Beethoven, beyond pop or other kinds of music to even entire categories of art such as film that didn't exist back then.  The truly great composers, from what I've read, spent a lifetime devoted to their craft, supported by the state, wealthy patrons, or devoted family, etc.  Those supports are mostly gone now, and the lures of fame and immortality that once spurred composers to the highest heights have been supplanted by other arts.  Ask a (cliche alert) man on the street who were the greatest artists in the 20th century, and you'll hear about actors and directors, painters, pop stars, writers.  1 in a hundred might mention Stravinsky or Schoenberg, at least in my experience. 

So I would say that there are still great composers out there, to be sure, but not in the same numbers or celebrated in the same way as in the Vienna of old -- the talent is still there, probably at the same rate or higher, but it's often otherwise occupied.  Which may not be entirely a bad thing, the world does keep turning after all....

[DavidRoss]

I would bet that it's not a lack of genius (oh, Hi Josquin) but rather that today's talent is being diffused into a much greater variety of disciplines.  Serious music was once supported by great patrons, and promoted as a thing of beauty and importance by aristocrats all over Europe.  Today, there are so many more outlets for creativity in children such as a future Mozart or Beethoven, beyond pop or other kinds of music to even entire categories of art such as film that didn't exist back then.  The truly great composers, from what I've read, spent a lifetime devoted to their craft, supported by the state, wealthy patrons, or devoted family, etc.  Those supports are mostly gone now, and the lures of fame and immortality that once spurred composers to the highest heights have been supplanted by other arts.  Ask a (cliche alert) man on the street who were the greatest artists in the 20th century, and you'll hear about actors and directors, painters, pop stars, writers.  1 in a hundred might mention Stravinsky or Schoenberg, at least in my experience. 

So I would say that there are still great composers out there, to be sure, but not in the same numbers or celebrated in the same way as in the Vienna of old -- the talent is still there, probably at the same rate or higher, but it's often otherwise occupied.  Which may not be entirely a bad thing, the world does keep turning after all....

Thoughtful post, thanks.  Also, other areas attracting talented, creative men and women (oh, hi, Josquin) that have opened up in the industrialized world.  If he were born, say, 40 years ago, what are the chances that Beethoven would have become a software engineer instead of a musician?

[snyprrr]

  If he were born, say, 40 years ago, what are the chances that Beethoven would have become a software engineer instead of a musician?
[/quote] I'm catching up over the weekend. I think this last point has been my point from the beginning. But no,... dude, dear ole Ludwig van would be catchin some tasty waves and jammin to Dick Dale on Venice Beach!
And if he has a trust fund?

Wow, I've been away from this thread for a few days...I was wondering why I was feeling so good?  Oh, that's right...I forgot about the "reality" of it all...the first thing I did catching up on this last page...was...sigh, deeply.

I've been enjoying 1909 so much lately, I FORGOT it was 2009!  Thank God for CDs!!

Two composers I would lift up as "standard" modern composers would be DUSAPIN and FEDELE, two names which should be familiar.  Very well crafted...it's got this, it's got that....but where's the out and out insanity of experimentation?....oh, that's right, it's the postpost modern age...all the experiments have been done...it's only up to SuperBach now to put it all together...but I STILL think he's going to make a deal with the devil!

oh, I KNEW I had something more important and topical to say......I can't remember...it's been a loooooong week.

[Cato]

Concerning Ivan Fedele:

http://www.composers21.com/compdocs/fedelei.htm


And Pascal Dusapin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_Dusapin

Dusapin is better represented on CD's, and one can even obtain a DVD of his opera Faust, The Last Night on Amazon, albeit used. There are 3 rave reviews about it on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Dusapin-Faustus-Night-Georg-Nigl/dp/B000H0MH4A/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1238585678&sr=1-4