Götterdämmerung, Covent Garden, November 2nd

[Michel]

I watched for two hours, the first act, realizing that this opera is in fact sh*t.

So I left at the first interval, as I fancied a polish beer. I feel I was effectively drowning my sorrows because I love the first half of the Ring, but Siegfried and Götterdämmerung are dire, and silly, and far too long, with every character harping on about all sorts of silly crap. Are we expected to listen to Wager's "great ideas" for the rest of our lives? It seems sometimes he makes things so drawn out to attempt just that.

Also, my previous comments about the "controversial" staging being not as bad as some reports claimed I would like to go back on. In this opera, it was grotesque and ridiculous. Especially when the knight's horses were skulls passed from one to another.

As I was much closer to the stage this time, I also realised quite how sh*t John Treleaven was. Not only is his singing atrocious, but his acting is utter sh*t.

[uffeviking]

That was a bummer, wasn't it, poor kid. 

Just do me one favour, please: Don't condemn all of Wagner and every Götterdämmerung because of one lousy production with an incompetent tenor. I do have - or had - one DVD with horse skulls, including poor Grane's, and on first sight I busted out laughing, but was reminded that opera is not reality, it's make-believe. Humph! But horse skulls?

Next time, my dear Friend: Just listen to the music! 

[Iago]

I've seen productions of Gotterdammerung at both Bayreuth and the Metropolitan Opera. ( 4 or 5 different performances). And none of them were sh*t. They all presented Wagners monumental music with dignity and with expertise. Their is certainly a damned good reason why Gotterdammerung is considered to be one of the pillars of the operatic repertory. The singing is important. But the orchestra is even MORE important. And the staging (at least for me, runs a distant third).

[uffeviking]

The sad part is that one disastrous performance might have turned Michel away from Wagner, especially Siegfried and Die Götterdämmerung forever. Let's hope not!

[PerfectWagnerite]

I watched for two hours, the first act, realizing that this opera is in fact sh*t.

So I left at the first interval, as I fancied a polish beer. I feel I was effectively drowning my sorrows because I love the first half of the Ring, but Siegfried and Götterdämmerung are dire, and silly, and far too long, with every character harping on about all sorts of silly crap. Are we expected to listen to Wager's "great ideas" for the rest of our lives? It seems sometimes he makes things so drawn out to attempt just that.

Also, my previous comments about the "controversial" staging being not as bad as some reports claimed I would like to go back on. In this opera, it was grotesque and ridiculous. Especially when the knight's horses were skulls passed from one to another.

As I was much closer to the stage this time, I also realised quite how sh*t John Treleaven was. Not only is his singing atrocious, but his acting is utter sh*t.

So you feel you are qualified to condemn the quality of Wagner's work because you paid some exhorbitant price for a ticket?

[head-case]

So you feel you are qualified to condemn the quality of Wagner's work because you paid some exhorbitant price for a ticket?

No, because he has spent a lifetime listening to Wagner's music performed by the finest musicians in the world.

[marvinbrown]

I watched for two hours, the first act, realizing that this opera is in fact sh*t.

So I left at the first interval, as I fancied a polish beer. I feel I was effectively drowning my sorrows because I love the first half of the Ring, but Siegfried and Götterdämmerung are dire, and silly, and far too long.

       What are you talking about Michel??  Siegried and Gotterdammerung have some of the best musical moments Wagner has written:  the Immolation Scene, Siegfried's Funeral March, the Steel Forging Scene, The passionate music between Siegfried and Brunhilde, The three question exchange between Mime and Wotan (disguised as the wanderer) and the list goes on and on and on.  Perhaps you were tired that night before the opera started and had problems concentrating ?? 

  marvin

[Larry Rinkel]

I have to agree with Marvin and Iago. Wagner took up the composition of Siegfried Act III and all of Goetterdaemmerung after a long hiatus when he composed Tristan and Meistersinger, and the stylistic growth is phenomenal. I regard these last sections of the Ring as its high points, though I agree the first act of G-D is extremely long and parts of the scene in the Gibichung hall are a bit talky. But the prologue is masterly throughout (the Norns scene used to be cut in many productions, yet I consider it one of the high points in the opera). I admit I always feel a bit fatigued by the time the Bruennhilde-Waltraute comes around, but can't say whether that is because of the music or just because I've been sitting so long. But Act II is taut, concise, and dramatic; and III has the funeral march, immolation, and much more. Well, there will be other opportunities.

[Michel]

Whatever happened to personal insults not being allowed on the forum?

[bhodges]

Gentlemen (and lady), I have edited the posts here to reflect forum guidelines.  Please refrain from personal insults, or the thread will be locked or deleted.  Thanks...

--Bruce

[PerfectWagnerite]

Gentlemen (and lady), I have edited the posts here to reflect forum guidelines.  Please refrain from personal insults, or the thread will be locked or deleted.  Thanks...

--Bruce

That would be doing us all a favor since this thread is asinine to begin with, with some moron  -  - complaining about how Gotterdammerung and Siegfried are too long. You want brevity why don't you go to Tosca or La Boheme?

[Michel]

That would be doing us all a favor since this thread is asinine to begin with, with some moron  -  - complaining about how Gotterdammerung and Siegfried are too long. You want brevity why don't you go to Tosca or La Boheme?

I am suprised you lot are not arguing that my comment against Wagner was a personal insult.

[Wendell_E]

I am suprised you lot are not arguing that my comment against Wagner was a personal insult.

Or John Treleaven.  That argument did occur to me, but since Wagner and Treleaven don't post here, I suppose they're fair game.   

[MDL]

Gentlemen (and lady), I have edited the posts here to reflect forum guidelines.  Please refrain from personal insults, or the thread will be locked or deleted.  Thanks...

--Bruce

You missed a "turd", Bruce. Honestly, boys and girls, this thread reads like something from a football website.

[bhodges]

You missed a "turd", Bruce. Honestly, boys and girls, this thread reads like something from a football website.

  There's a joke in there, somewhere...

PS, just for the record, nothing wrong in the least with dismissing Wagner, but one can do it in a way that doesn't incite riots. 

--Bruce

[Larry Rinkel]

You missed a "turd", Bruce. Honestly, boys and girls, this thread reads like something from a football website.

Ah! someone finally understands how things work around here. Bruce, that is correct, there is an unflushed turd remaining on this thread.

[knight66]

Oh Paul, I just opened up hoping for a nice long review! I know you like Parsifal, so I am puzzled you find Gotterdammerung slow. Although it is not supposed to be this way, as most prefer Walkure, Gotty is my favourite of the Ring and I don't find it too long. What a shame. I hope you give it another chance.

Catch you soon I hope. Dec and Parsifal are not far away.

Mike

[marvinbrown]

PS, just for the record, nothing wrong in the least with dismissing Wagner, but one can do it in a way that doesn't incite riots. 

--Bruce

  Oh please allow me to object Bruce- riots will ensue from marvinbrown no matter what way is used to dismiss Wagner.......I suppose I could always settle for a quiet Ghandi-like protest instead  0:).


  marvin

[Wendell_E]

I suppose I could always settle for a quiet Ghandi-like protest instead  0:).

I was thinking a little self-immolation would be the perfect protest, but couldn't find the matches.  Darn!

[marvinbrown]

I was thinking a little self-immolation would be the perfect protest, but couldn't find the matches.  Darn!

  LOL  a classic response I love that!!!


  marvin