Author Topic: VERDI King of Italian Opera  (Read 111949 times)

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Haffner

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2007, 08:27:16 AM »
I am a massive admirer of Wagner, Handel, Mozart, Puccini, Rossini...but even I haven't heard an opera to top La Traviata.

It can be catchy, dramatic, contrapuntally complex, funny, sexy...all completely memorable as well.

But that's just my opinion.

karlhenning

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2007, 09:23:17 AM »
No, no, Andy -- the catchiness, drama, contrapuntal complexity, humor, glamor and complete memorability of La traviata is never a matter of mere opinion!

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2007, 10:06:13 AM »
I am a massive admirer of Wagner, Handel, Mozart, Puccini, Rossini...but even I haven't heard an opera to top La Traviata.

It can be catchy, dramatic, contrapuntally complex, funny, sexy...all completely memorable as well.


Funny? Where?
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

karlhenning

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2007, 10:38:24 AM »
Oh, there are touches of wit in all the Piave libretti:

Quote
Violetta: La vita è nel tripudio. (Life is full of pleasure.)
Alfredo:(to Violetta) Quando non s'ami ancora. (Until one discovers love.)

Haffner

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2007, 11:46:07 AM »
People here definitely will not be crazy about this next, but I see Verdi as the best opera composer in any language. And yes, I'm quite aware of and including Giulio Cesare, Don Giovanni, Die Zauberflote, Fidelio, Elektra, Shostakovich's excellent Lady MacBeth, Madame Butterfly....all of them and all the other composers

karlhenning

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2007, 01:22:42 PM »
People here definitely will not be crazy about this next, but I see Verdi as the best opera composer in any language.

Not sure I agree (though there certainly are days that I do agree) . . . the case can be made, and I don't find it crazy in the least.

Haffner

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2007, 01:28:29 PM »
Not sure I agree (though there certainly are days that I do agree) . . . the case can be made, and I don't find it crazy in the least.



Welllll....I noticed that I recently cut off Levine's Aida in order to slap the Bohm Elektra on again...

Offline Brewski

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #67 on: July 20, 2007, 01:28:47 PM »
Not sure I agree (though there certainly are days that I do agree) . . . the case can be made, and I don't find it crazy in the least.

Same here.  I don't think I'd agree (but I might) and the case could certainly be made.  Certainly his melding of music, characters and drama, in his best operas, is at the very top.

--Bruce
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Scriptavolant

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2007, 02:38:58 PM »
The only Opera I was able to appreciate from the beginning to the end was Donizetti's L'elisir d'amore.
Another one I frequently listen to is Purcell's "Didone ed Enea".

Offline marvinbrown

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2007, 08:09:00 AM »
The only Opera I was able to appreciate from the beginning to the end was Donizetti's L'elisir d'amore.
Another one I frequently listen to is Purcell's "Didone ed Enea".

  You should try Verdi's Une Ballo in Maschera and Otello.....never a dull moment!!!!


  marvin

Mozart

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2007, 07:27:29 PM »
Rigoletto!

I find Verdi hard to listen to at first but as I get to know the music it becomes exponentially rewarding. I started listening to Rigoletto a long time and bit by bit it caught on and now I love it :) Specially the duet with his daughter in act 1. I have lots of trouble with the language though, its soo weird sometimes.


Quote
.never a dull moment!!!!

Every opera has dull moments, except Le Nozze di Figaro

Offline bricon

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #71 on: July 22, 2007, 07:55:58 PM »
Rigoletto!

 I have lots of trouble with the language [in Rigoletto] though, its soo weird sometimes.


Every opera has dull moments, except Le Nozze di Figaro

Why is the language "weird" in Rigoletto but not (apparently) in Le nozze di Figaro?

Mozart

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #72 on: July 22, 2007, 08:57:10 PM »
Why is the language "weird" in Rigoletto but not (apparently) in Le nozze di Figaro?

I guess its just how its written Figaro its alot simpler and more like conversation.

Quote
Ah, più di Ceprano importuno non v'è...
La cara sua sposa è un angiol per me!
Quote
Ah sì, a turbare, ah sì, a turbare sarò vostr'orgie...
verrò a gridare fino a che vegga restarsi inulto
di mia famiglia l'atroce insulto;
e se al carnefice pur mi darete.
spettro terribile mi rivedrete,
portante in mano il teschio mio,
vendetta a chiedere,
vendetta a chiedere al mondo, al mondo, a Dio.

Quote
Voi che sapete
che cosa è amor,
donne, vedete
s'io l'ho nel cor.
Quello ch'io provo
vi ridirò,
è per me nuovo,
capir nol so.
Sento un affetto
pien di desir,
ch'ora è diletto,
ch'ora è martir.
Gelo e poi sento
l'alma avvampar,
e in un momento
torno a gelar.
Ricerco un bene
fuori di me,
non so chi'l tiene,
non so cos'è.
Sospiro e gemo
senza voler,
palpito e tremo
senza saper.
Non trovo pace
notte né dì,
ma pur mi piace
languir così.
 

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2007, 10:13:27 PM »
Joan Dornemann in a vocal masterclass gave an interesting slant to the famous aria of Cherbino by way of hints, rolling her eyes to the ceiling and innuendos:
"You who know love, ladies, look to see if I have it in my ____"
Voi che sapete che cosa è amor, donne, vedete s'io l'ho nel cor.

I have a feeling full of desire, sometimes pleasurable sometimes killing.
I freeze up and then burn and then turn to ice
Sento un affetto pien di desir, ch'ora è diletto, ch'ora è martir.
Gelo e poi sento l'alma avvampar, e in un momento torno a gelar.


But actually the alleged double entendres were even more intriguing in the "Ogni donna mi fa palpitar" where if he can't speak to the fountains and winds, well just speaks to himself,
parlo d'amor con me at the end of the aria.

ZB
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Mozart

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2007, 10:28:22 PM »
Come on, double entendres? Da Ponte isn't Shakespeare you know. If there are double entendres I certainly don't see them.

Offline marvinbrown

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2007, 12:04:14 AM »
Rigoletto!

Every opera has dull moments, except Le Nozze di Figaro


   I am not sure I agree with you that Otello has dull moments and Le Nozze di Figaro does not.  Every once in a while my patience runs out with Mozart's operas and I find myself having to "fast forward" through the recitivos to get to the arias and ensembles- this hardly ever happens with the operas of Verdi.

  marvin

Mozart

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #76 on: July 25, 2007, 04:58:35 AM »
Ohh I never skip the recitatives in Figaro! The reason you rarely do it with Verdi is he doesn't give you the chance. Just try clapping after an aria in Idomeneo.


Which green opera should I listen to next? I have Aida, Nabucco, or Il Trovatore.

Offline marvinbrown

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #77 on: July 25, 2007, 06:47:58 AM »
Ohh I never skip the recitatives in Figaro! The reason you rarely do it with Verdi is he doesn't give you the chance. Just try clapping after an aria in Idomeneo.


Which green opera should I listen to next? I have Aida, Nabucco, or Il Trovatore.

  AIDA of course, without question.  This is Romantic Italian opera on a "GRAND" scale...lots of choruses, beautiful music and a heartaching plot- I recommend you see this live or on DVD.  Il Trovatore comes next in line, lots of memorable music here, but the plot is a bit convoluted.  I generally do not like Nabucco nor Macbeth for that matter, granted you have the famous Hebrew Chorus in Nabucco but this is an opera from Verdi's earlier years (the first commercial success from what I understand) but (in my opinion) Verdi has come a very long way from Nabucco to Aida!!

  marvin

  marvin

Offline knight66

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #78 on: July 25, 2007, 11:49:00 AM »
Marvin, I agree that against his most mature works Nabucco seems simplistic. However there are great things there. The characterisation of both Nabucco and Abigallie has depth and variety. A deal of the music seems stock with waltzes backing what the soloists are doing. But then there are some great arias and ensembles. The Soprano gets some of the most fearsomely demanding music possible to sing and it is absolutely in character. I suspect it is not often performed because that part is such a killer.

I just got hold of a disc of excerpts with Anita Cerqetti singing Abigallie. It is a live recording and the stress of the part is all too evident, even for someone with the voice and technique of Cerqetti.

It is well worth investigation and I suggest the Gardelli set on Decca with Gobbi and the astonishing Suilotis, she burned out quickly and her committed singing here tells you exactly why.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

karlhenning

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Re: VERDI-King of Italian Opera
« Reply #79 on: July 25, 2007, 11:51:30 AM »
Saw Nabucco in Ulm.  I liked it, thought it made for fine theatre.