VERDI King of Italian Opera

Started by marvinbrown, April 20, 2007, 12:50:59 PM

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knight66

Quote from: sospiro on August 21, 2010, 11:49:49 AM
Thanks for your help Mike.

I would have liked that one but the Marketplace seller I contacted said it doesn't come with libretto.

Sorry then.....I think the best course may be to try E bay as TL suggests. There is the DG Karajan one that is being sold for about £10 on the Marketplace. Again, perhaps that has a libretto. I like Barstow, but not in Verdi. This was Karajan's last recording I think. However, if it has a libretto, you could get the Leinsdorf as well and have a great performance, an OK one and a libretto for about £20. But then, Callas may be the answer.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: sospiro on August 21, 2010, 12:10:53 PM
Thanks Mike. I really want the little book though. I'm flying to Italy soon & listening to an opera & reading the libretto makes the waiting around bearable, not to mention deterring people who want to tell you their life story.

It's Neal (not Mike), but not why I am back! :)

I realized there are multiple Solti versions, so just wanted to be clear I was referring to this one:
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

sospiro

Quote from: ukrneal on August 21, 2010, 12:16:50 PM
It's Neal (not Mike), but not why I am back! :)

:-[ I'm so sorry. I do know what your name is but I was looking at your quote of knight's post & wasn't concentrating.

Quote from: ukrneal on August 21, 2010, 12:16:50 PMI realized there are multiple Solti versions, so just wanted to be clear I was referring to this one:


Thanks.
Annie

abidoful

I have never heard a Verdi opera. Opera is for me mainly Mozart--Bellini--Wagner--Tsaikovski---Debussy---Madetoja---Szymanowski--Berg. I guess i could try Verdi also?

knight66

Do, you may like it. If you do, it means MONEY while you get more and more of it!

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

sospiro

Quote from: abidoful on August 21, 2010, 01:08:28 PM
I have never heard a Verdi opera. Opera is for me mainly Mozart--Bellini--Wagner--Tchaikovsky---Debussy---Madetoja---Szymanowski--Berg.

I do like some of these composers & I am trying to listen to different operas but Verdi keeps elbowing them to one side.

Quote from: abidoful on August 21, 2010, 01:08:28 PMI guess i could try Verdi also?

His music touches me deeply. Perhaps you could start by watching some YouTube or borrowing from the library.
Annie

mc ukrneal

Quote from: sospiro on August 21, 2010, 01:37:39 PM
His music touches me deeply. Perhaps you could start by watching some YouTube or borrowing from the library.

Good idea!

Verdi can really be approached from different directions. He is completely his own man and took the influences around him and made them his own.

So if you like Wagner, Otello is a wonderful opera that shows some of Wagner's influence (but you never think for a second that this is Wagner). The story is great too, with some beautiful duets and arias (and chorus too). This is probably the Verdi opera I come back to most often.

For an earlier period, closer to Bellini (but already beyond that), I would try Rigoletto or Il Travatore. Both have wonderful tunes and arias.

Alternatively, there are some good compilations out there of choruses, arias, and/or duets. These would give a good cross-section. I hope you give him a try and enjoy his work.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Wendell_E

"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ― Mark Twain

sospiro

Annie

abidoful

Quote from: ukrneal on August 21, 2010, 10:05:23 PM
Good idea!

Verdi can really be approached from different directions. He is completely his own man and took the influences around him and made them his own.

So if you like Wagner, Otello is a wonderful opera that shows some of Wagner's influence (but you never think for a second that this is Wagner). The story is great too, with some beautiful duets and arias (and chorus too). This is probably the Verdi opera I come back to most often.

For an earlier period, closer to Bellini (but already beyond that), I would try Rigoletto or Il Travatore. Both have wonderful tunes and arias.

Alternatively, there are some good compilations out there of choruses, arias, and/or duets. These would give a good cross-section. I hope you give him a try and enjoy his work.
Sospro & Urkneal, thank you guys--- Verdi has been some kind of a blindspot to me. But Nessun Dorma (?) just always gives me shivers, is it Verdi? ::)

sospiro

Quote from: abidoful on August 22, 2010, 09:17:23 AM
Sospro & Urkneal, thank you guys--- Verdi has been some kind of a blindspot to me. But Nessun Dorma (?) just always gives me shivers, is it Verdi? ::)

No it's from Turandot by Giacomo Puccini but it's still one of the most amazing pieces of music that's ever been written.  :)

As well as trying some Verdi you could try some Puccini - Tosca, La bohème, Madama Butterfly.
Annie

marvinbrown



   To all Verdi fans:

  First of all thank you so much for keeping this thread alive after all these years and it pleases me to hear that there are newcomers to Verdi (Welcome abidoful  8)!!)

  I just wanted to give you guys a heads up on the following recording of Verdi's Macbeth which "knocked my socks off" last night!!!



  A very solid performance of what is often considered Verdi's first masterpiece, this one's a keeper! (Well I suppose I do have to return it at some stage  :-[)!

  marvin
 
 

sospiro

Quote from: marvinbrown on September 04, 2010, 12:25:53 AM

   To all Verdi fans:

  First of all thank you so much for keeping this thread alive after all these years and it pleases me to hear that there are newcomers to Verdi (Welcome abidoful  8)!!)

  I just wanted to give you guys a heads up on the following recording of Verdi's Macbeth which "knocked my socks off" last night!!!



  A very solid performance of what is often considered Verdi's first masterpiece, this one's a keeper! (Well I suppose I do have to return it at some stage  :-[)!

  marvin
 


:D

I agree with everything you say, I love it.

(mine looks like this but it must be the same recording)



The duet "Due vaticini compiuti or sono" gives me the shivers & I love the way Cossotto (after reading the letter) launches into "Ambizioso spirito tu sei Macbetto", no hesitation at all. And again in "Vieni! t'affretta! accendere"

The whole thing is brilliant & can't find any weak links in it.

Annie

knight66

I thought I would provide some comments on the new Colin Davis version of Otello, it is on the live LSO label. I recall reading a few years ago that a similar concert performance was being recorded with Jose Curia. I heard a live relay and Cura, though a controversial vocalist, he came across with plenty of character and feeling.

That 'recording' never surfaced. Instead we have another tenor, himself a substitute given a couple of days notice. He is Simon O'Neill. He sings in Wagner in amongst other places The Met. He has the heft, but I detect little character in either the vocalisation or in the basic voice itself. No doubt the audience was grateful for his appearance and it is normal to make allowances under such circumstances; but for a recording?

He is certainly not bad, but he completely lacks any Italianate quality, there is no savoring of the words. In my library he comes up against strong competition, Vickers principally. But I had much the same complaint on the otherwise outstanding Muti DVD Otello. Why do these trained singers seem so relatively clueless over what to do with the words? Why are we being confronted with such relatively anonymity. It is as though anyone with a high beefy voice is shoved into the part.

Well, that out of the way, everything else seems exceptionally fine and dramatic. The sound picture, the splendid choral contributions, wonderful brass. All the other singers sound inside their parts and sing well, though the Desdemona does provide a couple of obvious wrong notes, one glaring in her Act 3 solo. But it is a warm and sympathetic voice.

But; the real reason to get hold of this is the superb Iago of Gerald Finley. He has not really quite the heft of the standard Verdi baritone. But what an artist. His singing is utterly beautiful, but full of character. The legato is a wonder. He stands in the opposite corner from Tito Gobi who snarls marvelously and is a touchstone Iago in the Serafin version; but it is an equally valid reading of the part and not remotely bland.

I have enjoyed the sheer dramatic sweep and the forward sound. Really, everything is terrific if you can acccept at the centre of the opera the vacuum of an anonymous Otello.

Perhaps sometimes we ought to be able to rename it 'Iago', as Verdi was so tempted to.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Drasko

Thank you for the review, Mike. I was considering that but I think I'll pass. Don't think I could work around a non-entity Otello. Dearth continues.

sospiro

Attila is one of Verdi's formulaic, flag waving, patriotic operas that even some of his staunchest fans aren't keen on but I can't help loving it & especially all that masculinity.
This CD has often warmed me up on winter mornings.




But this came today



Attila: Samuel Ramey
Ezio: Giorgio Zancarnaro
Odabella: Cheryl Studer
Foresto: Kaludi Kaludov
Uldino: Ernesto Gavazzi
Leone: Mario Luperi
Conductor: Riccardo Muti


& have just sat & watched it & can't decide if I need a cold shower or a lie down in a darkened room. There's masculine, there's virile & then there's Samuel Ramey stripped to his navel and singing like a God. You can actually watch his amazing breath control & I've been sitting mesmerised by Ramey's diaphragm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snOJHvMy1EI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feeR6M-hDJY

From the glowering Muti to the wonderful towering set including huge dead horses with legs in the air, giant headless statues, giant sails I've loved every moment. In my opinion, not a weak link anywhere, even the real horses behaved themselves.

I hate curtain calls betwen acts or anything which interrupts the fantasy but at the end of Act1 the audience goes bonkers & for once I didn't mind Ramey & co take a brief bow.


Annie

kishnevi

Quote from: sospiro on November 20, 2010, 02:17:20 PM
Attila is one of Verdi's formulaic, flag waving, patriotic operas that even some of his staunchest fans aren't keen on but I can't help loving it & especially all that masculinity.
This CD has often warmed me up on winter mornings.




But this came today



Attila: Samuel Ramey
Ezio: Giorgio Zancarnaro
Odabella: Cheryl Studer
Foresto: Kaludi Kaludov
Uldino: Ernesto Gavazzi
Leone: Mario Luperi
Conductor: Riccardo Muti


& have just sat & watched it & can't decide if I need a cold shower or a lie down in a darkened room. There's masculine, there's virile & then there's Samuel Ramey stripped to his navel and singing like a God. You can actually watch his amazing breath control & I've been sitting mesmerised by Ramey's diaphragm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snOJHvMy1EI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feeR6M-hDJY

From the glowering Muti to the wonderful towering set including huge dead horses with legs in the air, giant headless statues, giant sails I've loved every moment. In my opinion, not a weak link anywhere, even the real horses behaved themselves.

I hate curtain calls betwen acts or anything which interrupts the fantasy but at the end of Act1 the audience goes bonkers & for once I didn't mind Ramey & co take a brief bow.

I have this recording

which has not quite the same cast as the DVD (Neil Shicoff is Foresto and Leone is sung by Giorgio Surian, of whom I've never otherwise heard; everyone else is the same).

Quite satisfies my taste for blood and thunder Verdi.

As for Simon O'Neill--this is his Wagner recital
 
which I put in my "nothing to get excited about" category.   Given your description of his Otello, I'll be skipping this:  Iago may be important, but there is a reason Verdi kept the title as  Otello.  My one and only recording is this one, albeit with a different cover:


I almost saw Vickers perform this role with the Met on tour in Atlanta.  He canceled on the plea of sickness--one of those times when the substitution was announced from the stage at the start of the evening.   As I understood, this was not entirely unexpected: he seems to have had a reputation for avoiding performances.

sospiro

Quote from: kishnevi on November 20, 2010, 07:56:30 PM
I have this recording

which has not quite the same cast as the DVD (Neil Shicoff is Foresto and Leone is sung by Giorgio Surian, of whom I've never otherwise heard; everyone else is the same).

Quite satisfies my taste for blood and thunder Verdi.

I'm trying to rein in my spending but I'm tempted.   ::)

Is it live or a studio recording?
Annie

knight66

#338
kishnevi, I also have that Otello. I just cannot get along with Rysanik's gusty voice and slightly parched tone. Also the orchestra is variable, with some poor exposed lower string playing; try the dark linking passage towards the end of track 12 disc 2. Despite those issues, it remains my favourite version. Vickers/Gobbi is hard to beat.

I saw Vickers in the part in London around 1970 and he was marvelous. I had a ticket much later to see him in Peter Grimes, but he cried off that one.

Toscanini comes next, though now the sound is very primitive and he drives even the tender passages. I had the Pavarotti, but he was not temperamentally right for the part. Unfortunately I have a deaf spot for most of Domingo's work, (I do like his Sigmund), so that ruled out a fair few versions. I tried a couple.

Karajan with Vickers has a very odd sound picture and he butchers the ensemble after the ambassador arrives, can't imagine why, it nevertheless gets an occasional whirl, as Vickers is even more intense. I have the other Solti, but chiefly to listen to Margaret Price, who is as good as it gets in that part.

A golden oldie, on Naxos, live from the Met: Martinelli, Rethberg & Tibbet conducted by Panizza in 1938. A wonderful performance in very restricted sound. I got rid of Barbirolli because I can't take the tone McCracken produces, though he knew what to do with the part. I have never heard the Karajan Del Monaco version, but that tenor had a tendency to shout a lot, so his healthy voice became a weapon that he deployed against the other cast members.

What I want is a modern recording with a superb cast and conductor. So, I tried the Davis and will keep it, but the quest goes on. Perhaps I am too picky.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

kishnevi

#339
Quote from: knight on November 20, 2010, 11:59:03 PM
kishnevi, I also have that Otello. I just cannot get along with Rysanik's gusty voice and slightly parched tone. Also the orchestra is variable, with some poor exposed lower string playing; try the dark linking passage towards the end of track 12 disc 2. Despite those issues, it remains my favourite version. Vickers/Gobbi is hard to beat.

I saw Vickers in the part in London around 1970 and he was marvelous. I had a ticket much later to see him in Peter Grimes, but he cried off that one.

Toscanini comes next, though now the sound is very primitive and he drives even the tender passages. I had the Pavarotti, but he was not temperamentally right for the part. Unfortunately I have a deaf spot for most of Domingo's work, (I do like his Sigmund), so that ruled out a fair few versions. I tried a couple.

Karajan with Vickers has a very odd sound picture and he butchers the ensemble after the ambassador arrives, can't imagine why, it nevertheless gets an occasional whirl, as Vickers is even more intense. I have the other Solti, but chiefly to listen to Margaret Price, who is as good as it gets in that part.

A golden oldie, on Naxos, live from the Met: Martinelli, Rethberg & Tibbet conducted by Panizza in 1938. A wonderful performance in very restricted sound. I got rid of Barbirolli because I can't take the tone McCracken produces, though he knew what to do with the part. I have never heard the Karajan Del Monaco version, but that tenor had a tendency to shout a lot, so his healthy voice became a weapon that he deployed against the other cast members.

What I want is a modern recording with a superb cast and conductor. So, I tried the Davis and will keep it, but the quest goes on. Perhaps I am too picky.

Mike

I'm not a Karajan fan, so I don't buy his recordings, ceteris paribus.   At the very least, it helps keep CD purchases within budget. lets me overspend on other CDs.

I found the performance I saw through the Met database. 
The cast listing was:
OTELLO {235}
Giuseppe Verdi--Arrigo Boito

Otello..................Richard Cassilly
Desdemona...............Gilda Cruz-Romo
Iago....................Sherrill Milnes
Emilia..................Jean Kraft
Cassio..................Frank Little
Lodovico................James Morris
Montàno.................Robert Goodloe
Roderigo................Andrea Velis
Herald..................Arthur Thompson

Conductor...............James Levine


I remember Milnes's performance, although no one else's, which probably gives you a good idea of how he was in comparison to the rest of the cast, at least as far as acting went.
ETA: Come to think of it,  Cruz-Romo's final scene stands out in my memory as well as Milnes' performance.

And these two perfomances from near that time are available for streaming:

Metropolitan Opera House
September 25, 1978 Broadcast / Telecast


OTELLO {229}
Giuseppe Verdi--Arrigo Boito

Otello..................Jon Vickers
Desdemona...............Renata Scotto
Iago....................Cornell MacNeil
Emilia..................Jean Kraft
Cassio..................Raymond Gibbs
Lodovico................James Morris
Montàno.................Robert Goodloe
Roderigo................Andrea Velis
Herald..................Arthur Thompson

Conductor...............James Levine

Metropolitan Opera House
September 24, 1979 Broadcast / Telecast
Opening Night {95}

Anthony A. Bliss, General Director


OTELLO {240}
Giuseppe Verdi--Arrigo Boito

Otello..................Plácido Domingo
Desdemona...............Gilda Cruz-Romo
Iago....................Sherrill Milnes
Emilia..................Shirley Love
Cassio..................Giuliano Ciannella [Debut]
Lodovico................Kurt Moll
Montàno.................John Darrenkamp [Debut]
Roderigo................Charles Anthony
Herald..................Gene Boucher

Conductor...............James Levine


You can access them through the performance entries of the database at the Met's website (search for Otello with an appropriate date range).

I have to confess that in general I like Domingo--I have his Tristan, Parsifal, Don Carlo, Pagliacci and Cavelleria Rusticana, and the new Leoncavallo (I Medici) and have no real complaint with any of them.  So I suspect at some point I will get his Otello.