VERDI King of Italian Opera

Started by marvinbrown, April 20, 2007, 12:50:59 PM

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knight66

Thanks, I will have a look at the streaming, though I really want CDs that I can put onto my iPod.

I only know about half the singers mentioned; not that that suggests any lack of quality in the others.

Today as I have been loading the iPod, one piece I listened through to is Falstaff, the live LSO Davis version. In that I knew only three of the names, but what a superb cast. The word miracle so often comes up in writings about this opera; I can understand the praise heaped onto it. It has been lucky on disc, but nowhere luckier than in this spry, warm and beautifully recorded performance. Such life distilled on papaer and animated by Davis and his terrific team.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

kishnevi

Quote from: knight on November 21, 2010, 01:22:16 PM
Thanks, I will have a look at the streaming, though I really want CDs that I can put onto my iPod.

I only know about half the singers mentioned; not that that suggests any lack of quality in the others.

Today as I have been loading the iPod, one piece I listened through to is Falstaff, the live LSO Davis version. In that I knew only three of the names, but what a superb cast. The word miracle so often comes up in writings about this opera; I can understand the praise heaped onto it. It has been lucky on disc, but nowhere luckier than in this spry, warm and beautifully recorded performance. Such life distilled on papaer and animated by Davis and his terrific team.

Mike

I don't have the Falstaff, but I have the recordings he made for LSO Live of Fidelio and Benvenuto Cellini.  I like the Berlioz, although I don't have anything to compare it to; the Fidelio is much better than the only other one I have, a golden oldie which includes Jan Peerce among the cast.

knight66

#342
I don't know how I missed out on that Fidelio. I read through all the reviews of it today that are on the LSO site. As a result of all the praise heaped onto it, I have put it into my wish list on Amazon. I have indulded too much this month!

As to the Berlioz, I have his Phillips set. It is an opera that I have never been able to crack. Almost all other Berlioz I really do enjoy, but that one I perhaps need to see to 'get it'. But those opportunities are rare.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

zamyrabyrd

Anyone see Shirley Verrett as Lady Macbeth? These two clips are from the 75/76 season at La Scala? The visuals are a bit unclear but her voice rings out from the full high notes to a very well calibrated chest voice. Abbado's accompaniment is also very fine.

"Nel di della vittoria" (The spoken part is not said by her, unlike Callas.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6wpV4_g84M&feature=related
Sleepwalking Scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK0fBaH_gfE&feature=related
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

laredo

Verdi is one of the great ones in Opera repertoire. The best thing he composed was Rigoletto, in particular the magic "Bella Figlia dell'amore", that is  the vocal quartet of the third act.
Anyway Wagner is on another planet.

Jaakko Keskinen

I am somewhat surprised that Simon Boccanegra is skipped so often. I know, libretto may not be the most original and maybe somewhat complicated (though not compared to Il trovatore) but I think that Verdi's magnificent music makes this easily one of the best italian operas of all time. And I have to confess: this, along with Un ballo in maschera, is the only Verdi opera that captured my attention immediately from the very first bar. That string melody in the opening scene is just so divine!
"Javert, though frightful, had nothing ignoble about him. Probity, sincerity, candor, conviction, the sense of duty, are things which may become hideous when wrongly directed; but which, even when hideous, remain grand."

- Victor Hugo

knight66

It is a great opera, but I have always felt the ending is a bit lame. I don't see it as being on the same level as most of the rest of the piece. I go as far as suggesting that it is a problem ending. I suspect that may have hampered its popularity.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

sospiro

Quote from: Alberich on January 29, 2011, 03:42:12 AM
I am somewhat surprised that Simon Boccanegra is skipped so often. I know, libretto may not be the most original and maybe somewhat complicated (though not compared to Il trovatore) but I think that Verdi's magnificent music makes this easily one of the best italian operas of all time. And I have to confess: this, along with Un ballo in maschera, is the only Verdi opera that captured my attention immediately from the very first bar. That string melody in the opening scene is just so divine!

Boccanegra is my favourite opera and I only have to hear the first few notes & I get emotional.

On the latest DVD - with Domingo in the role - Antonio Pappano describes the music as sublime, and I agree.
Annie

Tsaraslondon

Quote from: sospiro on January 29, 2011, 06:57:38 AM
Boccanegra is my favourite opera and I only have to hear the first few notes & I get emotional.

On the latest DVD - with Domingo in the role - Antonio Pappano describes the music as sublime, and I agree.

I wouldn't say it was his best, but it does contain some of his greatest music. Mike is right about the end being a little lame, but I don't find it half so problematic as the end of Don Carlos, another opera brimming with great music. Indeed I believe the first scene of Act IV to be one of the greatest scenes in all opera. From Philip's magnificent soliloquy Ella giammai m'amo to Eboli's O don fatale, Verdi doesn't put a foot wrong. Both operas were important milestones of the route to Otello, and, for all their imperfections, I find them both a more moving experience than Aida.




\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

knight66

I agree there and although Don Carlos is my favourite Versi opera, it has an end that seems to be a truncated anti-climax.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

sospiro

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on January 29, 2011, 10:51:43 AM
I wouldn't say it was his best, but it does contain some of his greatest music. Mike is right about the end being a little lame, but I don't find it half so problematic as the end of Don Carlos, another opera brimming with great music. Indeed I believe the first scene of Act IV to be one of the greatest scenes in all opera. From Philip's magnificent soliloquy Ella giammai m'amo to Eboli's O don fatale, Verdi doesn't put a foot wrong. Both operas were important milestones of the route to Otello, and, for all their imperfections, I find them both a more moving experience than Aida.

Therein lies the puzzle. I agree Boccanegra isn't Verdi's best but somehow it's still my favourite.
Annie

knight66

I don't see anything wrong with that. Don Carlos is my favourite, but Otello and Falstaff are acknowledged as being his very best works. It revolves around what we individually connect to and that can change over time.

But I love all of them and have multiple versions of them all. Inexhaustable pleasure from any of them. We are very lucky to live at a time when all this can be a credit card and a click away.

Mike

DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

sospiro

Quote from: knight on January 29, 2011, 11:02:45 PM
But I love all of them and have multiple versions of them all. Inexhaustible pleasure from any of them.

and me

Quote from: knight on January 29, 2011, 11:02:45 PMWe are very lucky to live at a time when all this can be a credit card and a click away.
Mike

Lucky and nearly bankrupt  :D
Annie

Brian

Naxos has recorded a 2CD set of all the ballet music Verdi wrote for his operas. Conductor Jose Serebrier, who apparently had to do some serious digging to find a few of the scores, and the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra. Two video clips from the recording sessions at this link - including an excerpt from Verdi's "The Four Seasons"!

It is, of course, lovely music. No surprise there.

mc ukrneal

Every year, I acquire 1-2 Verdi recordings. Last year I got Jerusalem and La Battaglia di Legnano. This year, I was thinking of getting something more from the core that I do not have. But as is often the case, a few operas have harder decisions than others. Any thoughts on sets?

Aida -
Price/Vickers/Solti - Re-issued again quite cheaply. Do I finally take the plunge - cheap enough (Still have the LPs somewhere, so quite familiar with this one)
What else?

Nabucco -
Gobbi/Souliotis/Gardelli
Cappuccilli/Domingo/Nesterenko/Sinopoli

La Forza del Destino (here's a tough one on disc, all with flaws, but I narrowed it down to two)
Price/Domingo/Levine
Tebaldi/del Monaco/Molinari-Pradelli

I have a number of his operas already (Traviata, Travatore, Rigoletto, Otello, etc.). I would also consider replacing my Ballo (Pavarotti/Price/Solti), as I am not thrilled with it, but would lean towards something I don't have first.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

knight66

That Nabucco is the very best recording available. Sulotis was young and at her searing best in attacking the fearsome music she is given. Gobbi is terrific in projecting the disintegration of the king. It is terrifically well conducted. What an interesting piece it is. Verdi tapped into an earlier tradition in the ensembles which at some points sound like Opera Seria. But he injects great drama into them. The sound of the recording is very clear and forward.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Tsaraslondon

Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 08, 2012, 12:34:12 PM
Every year, I acquire 1-2 Verdi recordings. Last year I got Jerusalem and La Battaglia di Legnano. This year, I was thinking of getting something more from the core that I do not have. But as is often the case, a few operas have harder decisions than others. Any thoughts on sets?

Aida -
Price/Vickers/Solti - Re-issued again quite cheaply. Do I finally take the plunge - cheap enough (Still have the LPs somewhere, so quite familiar with this one)
What else?

Nabucco -
Gobbi/Souliotis/Gardelli
Cappuccilli/Domingo/Nesterenko/Sinopoli

La Forza del Destino (here's a tough one on disc, all with flaws, but I narrowed it down to two)
Price/Domingo/Levine
Tebaldi/del Monaco/Molinari-Pradelli

I have a number of his operas already (Traviata, Travatore, Rigoletto, Otello, etc.). I would also consider replacing my Ballo (Pavarotti/Price/Solti), as I am not thrilled with it, but would lean towards something I don't have first.

As Mike has already pointed out, the Gobbi/Souliotis Nabucco is the one to have. Definitely the best thing Souliotis ever did for the gramophone.

I have an antipathy to Solti in Verdi, and much as I love his cast (Price and Vickers in particular). I can't take his bombastic approach to the score. Muti is a safe bet  (Caballe, Domingo, Cossotto, Milnes), but Karajan II is interesting too. His use of more lyrical singers (Freni, Carreras, Muti, Cappuccilli) reminds us that much of the opera is of domestic scenes behind closed doors. If you can take mono sound Callas and Gobbi have never been bettered in the Nile scene and I like Serafin's lyrical yet dramatic conducting in the central Italian tradition (how he makes the violins weep in the section where Aida gives in to her father).

For Forza, I again go to Callas, who makes more of Leonora than any other singer, but of the two you mention, Price and Domingo with Levine would be my choice. That Tebaldi could be a great Leonora is demonstrated by some of the live recordings she appears on, but this one with Moilinari-Pradelli is a bit earthbound.

\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

zamyrabyrd

Quote from: knight66 on February 08, 2012, 01:01:21 PM
Verdi tapped into an earlier tradition in the ensembles which at some points sound like Opera Seria. But he injects great drama into them. Mike

Can you explain what you meant by Opera Seria, as opposed to what Verdi in general was composing?
Thanks.
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

mc ukrneal

Thanks guys. Callas is out for me as I don't like her voice. Forza will stay a conundrum for now I guess. But the Nabucco would nicely fill a hole, so I will keep a look out for a nice price on that set.

The best singing I've ever heard on Aida is actually an old set - Milanov/Bjoerling/Perlea (was on RCA). Perhaps the best singing I have ever heard on any opera. Unfortunately, the orchestra sounds like it is playing in the bathtub, so this cannot be a recommended version from me (unless you already have one in better sound).
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

marvinbrown

#359
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on February 08, 2012, 02:28:50 PM
As Mike has already pointed out, the Gobbi/Souliotis Nabucco is the one to have. Definitely the best thing Souliotis ever did for the gramophone.

I have an antipathy to Solti in Verdi, and much as I love his cast (Price and Vickers in particular). I can't take his bombastic approach to the score. Muti is a safe bet  (Caballe, Domingo, Cossotto, Milnes), but Karajan II is interesting too. His use of more lyrical singers (Freni, Carreras, Muti, Cappuccilli) reminds us that much of the opera is of domestic scenes behind closed doors. If you can take mono sound Callas and Gobbi have never been bettered in the Nile scene and I like Serafin's lyrical yet dramatic conducting in the central Italian tradition (how he makes the violins weep in the section where Aida gives in to her father).

For Forza, I again go to Callas, who makes more of Leonora than any other singer, but of the two you mention, Price and Domingo with Levine would be my choice. That Tebaldi could be a great Leonora is demonstrated by some of the live recordings she appears on, but this one with Moilinari-Pradelli is a bit earthbound.

  I agree with Tsaraslondon on the Gobbi/Suliotis Nabucco recording (Vienna Opera Orchestra & Chorus, Gardelli- conductor).  It is a thrilling performance!  I was never a big fan of Verdi's Nabucco, or early Verdi for that matter but this is truly a must have:

  [asin]B002ASW0BC[/asin]


  Edit: For Aida I have the Karajan (Tebaldi/Bergonzi) recording with the VPO:
  [asin]B00001IVQW[/asin]
They say Tebaldi has the "voice of an angel" so I had to find out for myself- she does! That said, it is taken for granted that Leontyne Price "owned" the role of Aida!

  marvin