VERDI King of Italian Opera

Started by marvinbrown, April 20, 2007, 12:50:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

knight66

Yes, it was and always was great to work for Abbado.. In the 82 Edinburgh performance, Norman sang the Mezzo part throughout.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Jaakko Keskinen

I heard Don Carlos for the first time two days ago and I love it! This is the first opera that I watched before first listening the recording, cause it feels like watching film based on a book before reading the book itself. Well, it still didn't bother me much, because orchestra, singers, costumes and set were all superb. I especially grew to love character of Rodrigo, and now I constantly have Carlos's and Rodrigo's beautiful friendship theme playing in my head. When it came for the last time in woodwinds, quietly during his death I was on the verge of bursting to tears. This opera is very underrated and it moved me much more than, say, la Traviata.
"Javert, though frightful, had nothing ignoble about him. Probity, sincerity, candor, conviction, the sense of duty, are things which may become hideous when wrongly directed; but which, even when hideous, remain grand."

- Victor Hugo

nico1616

Quote from: Alberich on October 21, 2012, 09:02:22 AM
I heard Don Carlos for the first time two days ago and I love it! This is the first opera that I watched before first listening the recording, cause it feels like watching film based on a book before reading the book itself. Well, it still didn't bother me much, because orchestra, singers, costumes and set were all superb. I especially grew to love character of Rodrigo, and now I constantly have Carlos's and Rodrigo's beautiful friendship theme playing in my head. When it came for the last time in woodwinds, quietly during his death I was on the verge of bursting to tears. This opera is very underrated and it moved me much more than, say, la Traviata.

Don Carlo is one of Verdi's very best, although the ending is always somewhat disappointing.
The Rodrigo role seems to be the most difficult to cast on CD: Fischer-Dieskau (Solti Decca)has no Verdi style at all, Milnes (Giulini Emi) is just acceptable, Nucci (Abbado DG) has never had a pleasant voice. Gobbi (Santini EMI) still rules. The opera is so ambitious that no recording can do justice to all aspects of this giant work. The wealth of the music and the quantity of superb pieces make it Verdi's most impressive achievement!
The first half of life is spent in longing for the second, the second half in regretting the first.

kaergaard

#383
Arthaus Musik published the 1965 performance of Don Carlos with Wolfgang Sawallisch conducting the orchestra of the Deutsche Oper Berlin. The stars making it a classic are James King, Josef Greindl and Martti Tavela The only flaw is Fischer-Dieskau, who really is no Verdian neither singer nor actor, so we put up with his straying from his oeuvre of Liedersinger to the operatic.

Tsaraslondon

I am coming to the end of a concentrated spell of Verdi listening, which I started a month or so ago. I have listened to almost all of his operas up until Aida, with only Otello and Falstaff to go, operas I know quite well.

I find it hard to understand those that say they love Verdi but can't abide his early operas, those of his "galley years", as he himself called them. Listening to them chronologically has been an edifying experience, in which one can trace Verdi working towards his first acknowledged masterpiece, Rigoletto. His path and gait may be faltering at times (though often, when he falters, it can be attributed to the circumstances of an opera's composition), but there is a definite sense of the man's development. The seeds of Otello are as surely sown in Oberto as those of Falstaff are evident in Un Giorno di Regno. One thing that shines through for me is the man's humanity, his compassion, his understanding of the human condition. His characters are not gods and heroes, they are real people, who suffer as we do. Even when he writes about kings, they are presented as real people, their frailties exposed (think of King Philip). In this way, Verdi, like Shakespeare, appeals to the universal spirit. It is no surprise to find that his final two operas are both adaptations of Shakespeare's works; two contrasting sides of Shakespeare's personality,as they are of Verdi's.

Most of Verdi's early operas were recorded in the 70s by Philips, with gaps being filled by Orfeo (Oberto and Alzira) and EMI (Giovanna d'Arco). Mostly conducted by the excellent Lamberto Gardelli, whom I once heard conduct a superb Requiem at the RFH, deputising for an ailing Giulini, they featured starry casts, Caballe, Ricciarelli, Domingo, Bergonzi, Carreras, Milnes and Raimondi amongst the singers. Can anyone imagine such a project being taken on today? How lucky we are to have them, for what riches they reveal.



\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

marvinbrown

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on October 28, 2012, 02:24:39 AM
I am coming to the end of a concentrated spell of Verdi listening, which I started a month or so ago. I have listened to almost all of his operas up until Aida, with only Otello and Falstaff to go, operas I know quite well.

I find it hard to understand those that say they love Verdi but can't abide his early operas, those of his "galley years", as he himself called them. Listening to them chronologically has been an edifying experience, in which one can trace Verdi working towards his first acknowledged masterpiece, Rigoletto. His path and gait may be faltering at times (though often, when he falters, it can be attributed to the circumstances of an opera's composition), but there is a definite sense of the man's development. The seeds of Otello are as surely sown in Oberto as those of Falstaff are evident in Un Giorno di Regno. One thing that shines through for me is the man's humanity, his compassion, his understanding of the human condition. His characters are not gods and heroes, they are real people, who suffer as we do. Even when he writes about kings, they are presented as real people, their frailties exposed (think of King Philip). In this way, Verdi, like Shakespeare, appeals to the universal spirit. It is no surprise to find that his final two operas are both adaptations of Shakespeare's works; two contrasting sides of Shakespeare's personality,as they are of Verdi's.

Most of Verdi's early operas were recorded in the 70s by Philips, with gaps being filled by Orfeo (Oberto and Alzira) and EMI (Giovanna d'Arco). Mostly conducted by the excellent Lamberto Gardelli, whom I once heard conduct a superb Requiem at the RFH, deputising for an ailing Giulini, they featured starry casts, Caballe, Ricciarelli, Domingo, Bergonzi, Carreras, Milnes and Raimondi amongst the singers. Can anyone imagine such a project being taken on today? How lucky we are to have them, for what riches they reveal.





  What a wonderful listening project.  I have been known to listen to 2 Verdi operas back-to-back which is a very exhilarating experience. I must confess though that I usually start from the middle period operas (Rigoletto, La Traviata, Il Trovatore). From that period onwards I do have a few of the lesser known oparas (Luisa Miller, I Vespri Siciliani, Simon Boccanegra). I am guilty of ignoring Verdi's earlier operas- I do have Ernani though. Here is my collection:

  Aida
  Don Carlo
  Ernani
  Falstaff
  I Vespri Siciliani
  Il Trovatore
  La Forza del Destino
  La Traviata
  Luisa Miller
  Macbeth
  Nabucco
  Otello
  Rigoletto
  Simon Boccanegra
  Un Ballo in Maschera

  I also have the requiem and the 4 sacred pieces (quattro mezzi sacri)

  Seeing as how you have heard Verdi's entire output, woul you be kind enough to tell me what golden nuggets am I missing?

  Thank you

  marvin
 

 

Tsaraslondon

Quote from: marvinbrown on October 30, 2012, 12:40:02 AM
 
  Seeing as how you have heard Verdi's entire output, woul you be kind enough to tell me what golden nuggets am I missing?

  Thank you

  marvin
 




Stiffelio, written just before Rigoletto is an absolute must. The Philips recording with Carreras and Sass is excellent, and there are also two DVDs (Carreras at Covent Garden and Domingo at the Met).

I would then take a look at La Battagila di Legno, I Masadieri and I due Foscari, but really all of the others have their moments. Even the much maligned Alzira has moments of great originality, though it is probably one of the weakest. Verdi's second opera Un Giorno di Regno is a delight, heavily influenced by Donizetti of course, but still worth a listen. The old Cetra recording with Bruscantini and Pagliughi is more characterful than the Philips, with its starry line up of Carreras, Cossotto and Norman.

The first volume of Julian Budden's The Operas of Verdi documents all the operas from Oberto to Rigoletto and is an invaluable guide.

\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

The new erato

I have one Verdi release; this:

[asin]B0032CJ37E[/asin]

marvinbrown

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on October 30, 2012, 01:35:10 AM

Stiffelio, written just before Rigoletto is an absolute must. The Philips recording with Carreras and Sass is excellent, and there are also two DVDs (Carreras at Covent Garden and Domingo at the Met).

I would then take a look at La Battagila di Legno, I Masadieri and I due Foscari, but really all of the others have their moments. Even the much maligned Alzira has moments of great originality, though it is probably one of the weakest. Verdi's second opera Un Giorno di Regno is a delight, heavily influenced by Donizetti of course, but still worth a listen. The old Cetra recording with Bruscantini and Pagliughi is more characterful than the Philips, with its starry line up of Carreras, Cossotto and Norman.

The first volume of Julian Budden's The Operas of Verdi documents all the operas from Oberto to Rigoletto and is an invaluable guide.

  Thank you so much. On your advice I just bought this:

[asin]B0009A41XI[/asin]

I will venture into the others as per your advice after I have finished listening to Stiffelio.

  marvin

 

mc ukrneal

Quote from: marvinbrown on October 30, 2012, 05:32:25 AM
  Thank you so much. On your advice I just bought this:

[asin]B0009A41XI[/asin]

I will venture into the others as per your advice after I have finished listening to Stiffelio.

  marvin
That whole series from Philips (early Verdi) is consistently excellent. One more from that series is Il Corsaro (not mentioned earlier by Tsaraslondon). There is also Attila (re-released on EMI with Ramey/Studer).
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

The new erato

Quote from: mc ukrneal on October 30, 2012, 06:03:41 AM
That whole series from Philips (early Verdi) is consistently excellent. One more from that series is Il Corsaro (not mentioned earlier by Tsaraslondon). There is also Attila (re-released on EMI with Ramey/Studer).
And they are in the box I referred to, which cost me all of 80 Euro's once upon a time on amazon.it.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: The new erato on October 30, 2012, 06:35:58 AM
And they are in the box I referred to, which cost me all of 80 Euro's once upon a time on amazon.it.
At 1499.99 on Amazon US, maybe you want to give someone a 'great deal'?!? Say, $999.99? :) You got a great deal, that is for sure! You also got some fantastic performances.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

marvinbrown

Quote from: The new erato on October 30, 2012, 02:25:33 AM
I have one Verdi release; this:

[asin]B0032CJ37E[/asin]

  That's quite a release  :)!

  marvin

Tsaraslondon

Quote from: marvinbrown on October 30, 2012, 02:14:53 PM
  That's quite a release  :)!

  marvin

It's undoubtedly a bargain, but I often wonder about the wisdom of buying all the music of a composer in one go over getting to know it bit by bit. I even preferred to buy The Ring one opera at a time, getting to know each opera in turn; more expensive in the long run, no doubt, but it had the advantage of me being able to spread the cost. The other problem with sets such as these, is that there will always be a few duds and that is certainly the case here. Of the early operas, the Sutherland Ernani is not exactly great, and the Giovanna d'Arco is an old live recording in very poor sound. The Macbeth would be quite a long way down most people's lists, after Abbado, Muti and Sinopoli; the Gardelli I Masnadieri is far superior to the Bonynge included here. And when it comes to the later operas, there is not a single one I would prefer to others in the catalogue. Swings and roundabouts I guess.

\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

The new erato

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on October 31, 2012, 01:53:44 AM
It's undoubtedly a bargain, but I often wonder about the wisdom of buying all the music of a composer in one go over getting to know it bit by bit.
So do I. But it's actually a question of getting some of it - ever - or not at all. If one's into Verdi (and I'm not a great fan of romantic opera in general) one certainlys need to supplement the major works (and I have a couple of individual sets of Othello and Ballo) - but the great value of sets like these is that they contain some works that one actually never otherwise would own, and even if this part is only around 20% of the set, and you'll like to own them, it all boils to great value (if you manage to snap it up while it's cheap).

But this is the collector in me speaking; more than the music lover/listener. The lover/listener would probably never own the majority of works in the set, my main interests lies elsewhere (even if I certainly recognizes the greatness of Verdi, it's just that there is so little time and one cannot give everything the highest priority....).

Tsaraslondon

Quote from: The new erato on October 31, 2012, 02:36:15 AM

But this is the collector in me speaking; more than the music lover/listener. The lover/listener would probably never own the majority of works in the set, my main interests lies elsewhere (even if I certainly recognizes the greatness of Verdi, it's just that there is so little time and one cannot give everything the highest priority....).

Ain't that the truth. I know I will get to the end of my life not having heard something great somewhere that someone once recommended to me, but, as you say, there are only so many hours in the end; and if I were to spend all my time listening to music that was new to me, I'd be missing out on re-hearing all those works I've come to know and love.

I guess I'm more of a music lover than a collector, at least these days. Verdi is one of my favourite composers, so it is no surprise that I have almost every one of his operas on CD, and have at least heard the ones I don't have. Berlioz is another of my favourites, though I am by no means a completist. I do however have most of the major works. I love Mahler but I don't have all the symphonies (still no recordings of 3 and 8), and I am still missing a couple of key Beethoven works. That said, I already have over 2000 CDs and a limited amount of room, and spoitify gives me access to a huge library of music without ever having to purchase another CD.



\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

nico1616

Quote from: mc ukrneal on October 30, 2012, 06:03:41 AM
That whole series from Philips (early Verdi) is consistently excellent. One more from that series is Il Corsaro (not mentioned earlier by Tsaraslondon). There is also Attila (re-released on EMI with Ramey/Studer).

I have a weak spot for I Due Foscari, on Philips with Cappuccilli, Carreras, Ricciarelli and Ramey.
All Verdi operas have great music, although the early ones can be dramatically weak (certainly Il Corsaro).
The first half of life is spent in longing for the second, the second half in regretting the first.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: nico1616 on October 31, 2012, 02:41:01 PM
I have a weak spot for I Due Foscari, on Philips with Cappuccilli, Carreras, Ricciarelli and Ramey.
All Verdi operas have great music, although the early ones can be dramatically weak (certainly Il Corsaro).
Well, he had a lot of trouble finding good librettists. It wasn't until Boito (later in his career) that he really found someone outstanding and with whom he seeemed to work well.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

zamyrabyrd

Quote from: nico1616 on October 31, 2012, 02:41:01 PM
All Verdi operas have great music, although the early ones can be dramatically weak (certainly Il Corsaro).

Is this the reason that Rigoletto (1851) is supposed to be the landmark for his most developed period? Or the fact that the most popular operas occur after that date? Before Rigoletto there were Nabucco (1842), Ernani (1844) and Macbeth (1847), not anything to sneeze at either, dramatically.  He would have been nearly 30 when working on Nabucco, so he was certainly a mature composer by then.  I understood that Othello (1887) and Falstaff (1893) were as in the case of late Beethoven, encursions into entirely new terrority.

ZB
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

nico1616

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on October 31, 2012, 11:28:17 PM
Is this the reason that Rigoletto (1851) is supposed to be the landmark for his most developed period? Or the fact that the most popular operas occur after that date? Before Rigoletto there were Nabucco (1842), Ernani (1844) and Macbeth (1847), not anything to sneeze at either, dramatically.

ZB

In my opinion, from Rigoletto on, all the Verdi operas are absolute masterpieces. I Vespri Siciliani is the only exception.
Of course there are some great works before, Macbeth and Luisa Miller to name two. But even those have some flaws: Macbeth has a weak 3rd act and Luisa's first half is not that superb.
My personal favorites are Aida, Don Carlo, Otello and Rigoletto. But I could never be without Ballo, Forza or even Trovatore with its ridiculous plotline :)
The first half of life is spent in longing for the second, the second half in regretting the first.